How long before Richard Bruton is leader of FG?

Nice man I'd say but he was absolutely destroyed by Brian Cowen in last election in any interviews I heard/saw. It was embarassing at times and Cowen didn't even seem to be trying. Bruton just had a few lines learned off that he kept repeating even after being shot down.

Probably better than Kenny but not good enough for Taoiseach imho.
 
Teabag said:
Nice man I'd say but he was absolutely destroyed by Brian Cowen in last election in any interviews I heard/saw. It was embarassing at times and Cowen didn't even seem to be trying. Bruton just had a few lines learned off that he kept repeating even after being shot down.

Probably better than Kenny but not good enough for Taoiseach imho.
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So Brian Cowen can talk the talk but this budget, in my opinion, shows how he hasn't been able to walk the walk. While he was talking the talk it appears our financial situation was getting worse.

What would I prefer, a good speaker or a good manager.
 
justsally said:
So Brian Cowen can talk the talk but this budget, in my opinion, shows how he hasn't been able to walk the walk. While he was talking the talk it appears our financial situation was getting worse.

What would I prefer, a good speaker or a good manager.
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I am not saying Cowen is a brilliant 'speaker' but at least he can formulate his arguments on the fly. Bruton seems incapable of that. He seemed 'coached'. Personally I doubt he would be a good manager. If himself & Kenny are the best FG have to offer, then they're in trouble (and we all are). There are better calibre TDs in the Labour Party and even Greens than in FG.
 
justsally said:
So Brian Cowen can talk the talk but this budget, in my opinion, shows how he hasn't been able to walk the walk. While he was talking the talk it appears our financial situation was getting worse.

What would I prefer, a good speaker or a good manager.
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We can only judge from what we see or hear of them before they take charge, if they are not good enough to win debates it makes it harder to put faith in their leadership. I didn't think Bruton did particularly well against Lenihan either and it seemed like more of the 'what about the old, the sick' mantra rather than providing alternatives.
 
Am I right in believing that both the Brians have a background in the legal profession. They should, therefore, be well qualified to formulate a good argument. Wouldn't that be part of their training. Perhaps all our politicians should learn to do the same.:) But as we all know Legal argument gives you Law it doesn't necessarily give you justice.
 
justsally said:
Am I right in believing that both the Brians have a background in the legal profession. They should, therefore, be well qualified to formulate a good argument. Wouldn't that be part of their training. Perhaps all our politicians should learn to do the same.:) But as we all know Legal argument gives you Law it doesn't necessarily give you justice.
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Mrs Teabag can formulate a good argument and she has no legal background.....she doesn't necessarily give me justice either :)
 
justsally said:
Am I right in believing that both the Brians have a background in the legal profession. They should, therefore, be well qualified to formulate a good argument. Wouldn't that be part of their training. Perhaps all our politicians should learn to do the same.:) But as we all know Legal argument gives you Law it doesn't necessarily give you justice.
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Cowen is, AFAIK, a solicitor so would not have been trained in court advocacy. Lenihan is, AFAIK, a Senior Counsel, though that does not always require standing up in Court.

Back to OP - Fine Gael (& the Dail) need an alpha male leader. Richard Bruton, for all his qualities, ain't that. Neither ins IndaKinny.
 
I'd say after the next General Election. I think Enda will survive as FF will suffer a bit in the upcoming local elections thus benefiting FG and saving Enda's job.

I think Enda is useless and not regarded as a potential leader by the populus. I'd prefer to see Bruton as leader of FG at next election so that we get a decent bit of competition.

I think Bruton beat Lenihan on primetime last night.
 
"Cowen is, AFAIK, a solicitor so would not have been trained in court advocacy. Lenihan is, AFAIK, a Senior Counsel, though that does not always require standing up in Court."

Now I'm just curious! would solicitors and or senior counsel have received no training in how to create a legal argument or even what is considered to be a good argument:(. When I was studying philosophy we had to undertake some modules in Logic, the purpose of these being to help in creating a logical argument. Hope I'll never have to appear in court.:) Even if a solicitor never has to appear in court he is expected to act and be seen to act in the best interest of those he represents. Can't believe that apart from their natural given abilities they haven't had some kind of advocacy training.

sorry hope I'm not veering away from main topic raised.
 
Raskolnikov said:
It's telling that we've seen more of Bruton than Kenny in recent days.
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Well in fairness, Bruton is the FG Finance Spokesman and the budget would be his remit if he were in power; so it is only right that he was the one to be seeking the limelight in recent days.
 
CGorman said:
Well in fairness, Bruton is the FG Finance Spokesman and the budget would be his remit if he were in power; so it is only right that he was the one to be seeking the limelight in recent days.
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True but the fact that Kenny would probably have made a fool of himself may also have been a factor ;)
 
justsally said:
Now I'm just curious! would solicitors and or senior counsel have received no training in how to create a legal argument or even what is considered to be a good argument:(. ... Can't believe that apart from their natural given abilities they haven't had some kind of advocacy training.
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Part of the training to become a solicitor does include an advocacy course. But mainly you learn on your feet in court. I had just qualified and was three days in a new job when one morning my boss walked in with a stack of files, said- that's today's district court- off you go. You learn very fast. You watch the experienced solicitors while you are in court and if you are not good enough, or don't like it, you tend to drift away from court work.
 
The FG front bench is as follow: Enda Kenny, Richard Bruton, Michael Creed, Oliva Mitchell, Alan Shatter, Simon Coveney, Michael Ring, Jimmy Deenihan, Brian Hayes, Leo Varadkar, Phil Hogan, Billy Timmins, James Reilly, Denis Naughten, Charlie Flanagan, Olwyn Enright, Fegus O'Dowd, Paul Kehoe & Frances Fitzgerald.

Nobody really stands out as an inspiring choice of leader but i woud agree with OP Richard Bruton would be better than Enda Kenny. To me alot of the above names are very unfamiliar. FG don't really give the lesser names much of a chance of gaining a national profile. It seems to be the same people on the various tv programmes all the time. Leo Varadkar is never off the telly which is probably due to him being Dublin based.
 
What about the merchant prince of the south Mr. Coveney?

He always struck me as presentable/progressive - is he a heavy hitter?

I'm inclined to vote FG just for the sake of getting a change from FF and allowing "proper democracy" (not that FF staged a coup or anything but you know what I mean ... dont get pedantic on this one :)).

The opposition have already been taunted that they have practically no experience. If we dont get them in soon they will have ABSOLUTELY no experience, that cannot be good for the country.
 
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