Rate of return is not referring to assets that pay interest only hence the large equity holdings the NTMA hold. I believe that BTC could be purchased by the NTMA in the future following the necessary governance process.The NTMA's investment mandate is here. I don't see how a virtual asset that pays no interest that has a material chance of being worth zero in the medium term is consistent with that mandate.
Correct.Rate of return is not referring to assets that pay interest
I should have recorded the original tired and emotional rant which was right out of the Big Short copy book.Yes of course, it would rattle everyone.
Effectively, an admission that the overseers had lost control and were scrambling to retain control.
My somewhat crude point before, about the Irish Censorship Board permitting the sale of Playboy in 1995, coinciding with proliferation of internet pornography on every computer. Imagine if the overseers of censorship had tried to hold their ground? It would have been farcical.
Central Banks, and their political creators, will not go quietly into the night that is for sure. That is why I think it is a great idea for nation states to start buying bitcoin. Rather than automatically take a hostile position to bitcoin, take a positive position in it.
Bitcoin does not have to be this great threat to the $ or €. The biggest threat to the $ and € is unlimited money-printing based on a stagnant, permanent policy decision of 2% inflation target.
I should have recorded the original tired and emotional rant which was right out of the Big Short copy book.
The thread as per usual has drifted into farce.
It fuels your fantasy of undermining the Pax Americana which underpins the remarkable advance in the human condition that we in America's orbit are now enjoying.
I wasn't talking about Muskie, Saylor et al. I was talking about you and @tecate.This is silly.
As I understand it, the largest volume of buyers and transactions of bitcoin is with American people. The notion that they are trying to undermine the 'American dream' - as that is what you are talking about - is daft.
In case you think this was in the context of some other high-falutin' debate @tecate clarified the matter.tecate said:The Americans have weaponised money. You think that they are doing good with this? I certainly don't. A couple of years ago, they locked Iran out of international banking - against the wishes of the Europeans. They didn't care - they just acted unilaterally.
Next up....give us an example of how sanctions have really been a force for good in the world? There isn't one! Have you talked to anyone from a sanctions-hit country? ...because I do all the time. In Venezuela, they have a shortage of all manner of things including medical equipment, drugs, etc. A family member of a friend of mine died in Venezuela last year because of a lack of a very basic drug. That death would not have happened had there not have been sanctions. It's one of countless cases of the real effects of sanctions.
Unfortunately I failed to record your own late night words of wisdom on the subject.tecate said:Discussed exclusively in the context of bitcoin.
I wasn't talking about Muskie, Saylor et al.
In case you think this was in the context of some other high-falutin' debate @tecate clarified the matter.
There's a career in standup awaiting you, Dukie...(although probably a dead beat circuit of comedy clubs replete with airborne rotten apples).@WolfeTone Nevertheless your "true feelings" and those of your fellow traveller @tecate bare stark comparison with the clinical unemotive contributions of @NoRegretsCoyote.
If by that you mean that I'm encouraged by the force for good that decentralised crypto/blockchain can be in the world, then that's correct.It is clear that bitcoin means much more to the two of you than a mere technical breakthrough.
Comments were made exclusively re. sanctions - in the context of bitcoin. There was no other commentary on anything else that gives your comment above legitimacy - let alone that anyone should find a grain of truth in it.It fuels your fantasy of undermining the Pax Americana which underpins the remarkable advance in the human condition that we in America's orbit are now enjoying.
And let me reiterate that the whole premise of Wolfie starting this thread was to mull over the notion that nation states - through their CBs and Sovereign Wealth Funds - would begin to accumulate bitcoin. All your posts highlight is that process has already begun. It's also encouraging to hear that it seems there isn't any legal impediment to the NTMA holding bitcoin on its balance sheet afterall.Let me begin by reiterating that the fact that the Norwegian Oil Fund is indirectly exposed 6 parts in a million to bitcoin does not suggest to me a positive answer to the question posed by your thread.
I hate to disappoint, your Dukeness. I hope the above will suffice.Unfortunately I failed to record your own late night words of wisdom on the subject.
I was quite wrong on bitcoin by the way. I heard of it as long ago as 2009 when I think it was a dollar a bitcoin and wished in hindsight that I'd bought a few.It is clear that bitcoin means much more to the two of you than a mere technical breakthrough.
I am not talking about Americans or non-Americans I am talking about YOU and @tecate.Oh I get it, if non-Americans buy bitcoin to protect themselves against moribund CB monetary policy its all part of the Russian/NK axis to destablise America and Western culture as we know it.
But if Americans buy bitcoin, that's a whole new thing! Totally different!
Really, you are getting as stubborn as your mentor. No more from me on this particular aspect.tecate exclusively in the context of bitcoin said:The Americans have weaponised money. You think that they are doing good with this? I certainly don't. A couple of years ago, they locked Iran out of international banking - against the wishes of the Europeans. They didn't care - they just acted unilaterally.
Next up....give us an example of how sanctions have really been a force for good in the world? There isn't one! Have you talked to anyone from a sanctions-hit country? ...because I do all the time. In Venezuela, they have a shortage of all manner of things including medical equipment, drugs, etc. A family member of a friend of mine died in Venezuela last year because of a lack of a very basic drug. That death would not have happened had there not have been sanctions. It's one of countless cases of the real effects of sanctions.
Agree with that. I don't think the limited medium of exchange utility you cite justifies a $2trn crypto market cap. But there are other sources of demand most notably speculative. Again I don't think they are in any way sufficient to sustain the $2trn market cap long term.I was quite wrong on bitcoin by the way. I heard of it as long ago as 2009 when I think it was a dollar a bitcoin and wished in hindsight that I'd bought a few.
I didn't think that a currency without state backing would ever engender mass trust. A decade on and it's clear that it has a non-zero value.
It is clear to me now that bitcoin does have a use as a means of exchange for wholesale drugs and weapons trading. The currency risk is worth taking as it is a lot simpler than sending suitcases of cash around the world.
Otherwise bitcoin seems to be something that a lot of people can project all sorts of bizarre thoughts on to. I don't really understand this, but it has probably driven some of the value too.
I am not talking about Americans or non-Americans I am talking about YOU
Are you aware of any weapons deal financed via bitcoin? The same question re. wholesale drugs trading as I would imagine that it would represent a poor medium in its current form given that there's a high potential for such transactions to be traced from point of origin to final destination.It is clear to me now that bitcoin does have a use as a means of exchange for wholesale drugs and weapons trading. The currency risk is worth taking as it is a lot simpler than sending suitcases of cash around the world.
By all means, feel free to expand on what to your mind are 'bizarre thoughts' in this instance.Otherwise bitcoin seems to be something that a lot of people can project all sorts of bizarre thoughts on to. I don't really understand this, but it has probably driven some of the value too.
Indeed you were as per post #145.I am not talking about Americans or non-Americans I am talking about YOU and @tecate.
I'll remind you again.
In that circumstance, I don't think the news would be welcomed but I also think there would be little material change in the price as a direct consequence.Duke of Marmalade said:If Elon Musk were to change his mind I would say we would get a 50% mark down overnight.
We've already identified two sovereign wealth funds who have put bitcoin on their balance sheets (either directly or indirectly). I think there needs to be further development in the bitcoin market - and a further expansion of market cap - and then these funds will incorporate bitcoin into their investment mix.Duke of Marmalade said:In the context of this particular nation state taking a crypto stake, it surely wouldn't dare take that sort of risk whether it is within its mandate or not.
I suppose we've all become a little better at wearing masks over the past year, but occasionally they do tend to slip..Comments were made exclusively re. sanctions - in the context of bitcoin. There was no other commentary on anything else that gives your comment above legitimacy - let alone that anyone should find a grain of truth in it.
Very much the empty statement Firefly unless you have the wherewith-all to justify it (or at a minimum, explain to us all what it even means. I would suggest that as a basic starting point). The use of bitcoin by sanctions-hit countries came up in discussion here a couple of years ago already. I commented on the inequity of sanctions then - as I have now (in the context of bitcoin, of course). I've been very clear and consistent in what I've stated. Meanwhile, all you have done is cast aspersions in a cryptic manner. I'd suggest you either refrain from such commentary or clarify such comments definitively.I suppose we've all become a little better at wearing masks over the past year, but occasionally they do tend to slip..
I suppose we've all become a little better at wearing masks over the past year, but occasionally they do tend to slip..
Enter, yet again, Whataboutism, that sacred Russian tactic. Oh dear, has the mask slipped again?Are you aware of any weapons deal financed via bitcoin? The same question re. wholesale drugs trading as I would imagine that it would represent a poor medium in its current form given that there's a high potential for such transactions to be traced from point of origin to final destination.
The US dollar is the medium of choice for illicit transfer of value in the world. Where cash doesn't suffice - the international banking sector is more than happy to facilitate this lucrative activity. Meanwhile, studies have been carried out which have found that only 1% of bitcoin transactions are related to illicit activity.
Not a fiddlers, how about you?@Firefly may I ask you some questions?
Do you think nation states will start to acquire bitcoin? If yes, do you have timeframe, even a guess of when they will?
If no, do you think they are missing an opportunity to acquire a valuable assest?
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