How has the recession affected you?

[thedaras]

Increments are still paid as contracted.

WOW!! so even though the PS have taken on a pay freeze ( as have the private sector )they still get an increment of 3% per year?

That is quite unbelievable!!
While most people have taken pay cuts including the PS,and most have not had any pay increases, the PS still get a yearly increase?

This couldn't be correct.can anyone clarify that the PS are getting extra 3% each year ?

 

[Deiseblue]

WOW!! so even though the PS have taken on a pay freeze ( as have the private sector )they still get an increment of 3% per year?

That is quite unbelievable!!
While most people have taken pay cuts including the PS,and most have not had any pay increases, the PS still get a yearly increase?

This couldn't be correct.can anyone clarify that the PS are getting extra 3% each year ?

I can confirm that if you are contractually entitled to an increment then PS employees still receive same.

Where you are getting the 3% figure from I have no idea , perhaps you have more knowledge of the PS incremental system than I do ?

I should also point out that many multinationals and financial institutions and indeed major Irish companies employ incremental structures.

 

[thedaras]

So the title of this thread is how has the recession affected you...so in reality deflation is at -6% and if the ps get and annual increment of 3% that means an effective increase of 7%?,even if its a half % the ps are still getting an increase..
What happened to the pay "freeze"?
Back to the title of thread, how can it have affected those who are getting pay increased every year?
Anyone know how much the increments are?
As far as I am aware increments are not being paid in the private sector ,in other words a pay freeze is exactly that ,a pay freeze,If they are being paid,it is few and far between.
Who are the ones that are paying it?

 

[Caveat]

I should also point out that many multinationals and financial institutions and indeed major Irish companies employ incremental structures.

Many ?

Really? which ones?

 

[orka]

Most public service pay scales can be found on the internet - civil service on the Dept of Finance website, garda, nurse, teacher on the various union websites. Increments generally average more than 3% but are not paid ad infinitum - usually for the first 7-10 years for each grade, then maybe a couple more increments after 3 and 6 years. Teachers have the longest scale - still getting increments after 25 years (is a 25-year teacher really better than a 20-year teacher?)

Older scales are often available too and can make interesting (/depressing) reading. I posted about increments in another thread about how I don't think the impact on public service employees is as bad as they like to make out. But I would be interested if some posters in the public sector would tell us their 2006 and 2010 gross and net if they would like us to see how bad things are. This was my post from another thread.

I had a look at some current and past pay scales to see how gross and net income of various public sector workers have changed since 2006 and I don’t think things are as bad as many make it out to be (bearing in mind I can only look at the payscales available – so civil service, garda, nurses, teachers – I accept there are other ‘public service’ out there who may not have seen the same level of pay rises).

Example 1:
A HEO in the civil service at point 3 on the scale in 2006 earned 48,570 (34,314 net); by 2010, they would be on point 7 of the scale earning 54,329 (would have been 57,923 before paycut in Dec 2009) which is 35,353 net of taxes and levies. So their net income has actually increased (by 3%)!
Example 2
Married Garda and nurse – both getting no increments from 2006 to 2010. 2006 income €83,079 (net €64,049); 2010 income €86,505 (no increments, just change in scale values) which is €61,473 net of taxes and levies (a 4% drop in net income)

 

[thedaras]

I totally give up!! This is absolute madness...
I hope Ollie has his cheque book with him..

To be perfectly honest, I actually thought that the PS were having the same bad time as the everyone else,but my god this has really opened my eyes..
Only for deiseblue,I would still be in the dark about it!!
There is no way then that the recession could possibly have affected the PS as much as it has affected everyone else...

 

[orka]

I should also point out that many multinationals and financial institutions and indeed major Irish companies employ incremental structures.

If they can afford it, good for them! But in years when they can't afford it, they won't pay it. I used to work for a large company with an increment structure and when we had a couple of bad years, increments were suspended - and we just got on with it - unions huffed and puffed a bit but finally accepted that the money genuinely wasn't there.

 

[Deiseblue]

So the title of this thread is how has the recession affected you...so in reality deflation is at -6% and if the ps get and annual increment of 3% that means an effective increase of 7%?,even if its a half % the ps are still getting an increase..
What happened to the pay "freeze"?
Back to the title of thread, how can it have affected those who are getting pay increased every year?
Anyone know how much the increments are?
As far as I am aware increments are not being paid in the private sector ,in other words a pay freeze is exactly that ,a pay freeze,If they are being paid,it is few and far between.
Who are the ones that are paying it?

As I say I can only confirm that increments are paid as contracted in the PS.
No more than yourself I do not know what percentages are involved either in terms of incremental payments or the percentage of employees who receive same.
All the major banks have incremental structures as do the major Insurance companies and the multinationals and of course all the semi states.
I would contend that most large companies have pay scales based on service.

 

[Deiseblue]

I totally give up!! This is absolute madness...
I hope Ollie has his cheque book with him..

To be perfectly honest, I actually thought that the PS were having the same bad time as the everyone else,but my god this has really opened my eyes..
Only for deiseblue,I would still be in the dark about it!!
There is no way then that the recession could possibly have affected the PS as much as it has affected everyone else...

No need to thank me , anyone could readily access this information on google.

One must bear in mind that the PS have had two paycuts imposed on them in their entirety whereas the increments only apply to a percentage that has yet to be quantified in this thread and of course deflation applies across the economy

 

[z107]

To be perfectly honest, I actually thought that the PS were having the same bad time as the everyone else,but my god this has really opened my eyes..
Only for deiseblue,I would still be in the dark about it!!
There is no way then that the recession could possibly have affected the PS as much as it has affected everyone else...

We'll have to wait until the IMF/EU has full control before the Public sector gets effected. The government won't go near it because they're spineless.

On the positive side, it's now only a matter of weeks before intervention. Lets just hope that the government doesn't do too much more damage in the meantime.

 

[orka]

One must bear in mind that the PS have had two paycuts imposed on them in their entirety whereas the increments only apply to a percentage that has yet to be quantified in this thread

That's a nice soundbite, often repeated in defense of public sector salaries future untouchability but what does it actually mean in practical terms to a public sector employee? One of my examples above showed the impact on a married nurse and garda who got NO increments between 2006 and 2010 - net income is down 3% after paycuts and levies. Taking a CO in the civil service at the top of their scale - gross in 2006 was 34,964 (net 28,605) - gross in 2010 after the paycut was 37,341 (again repeating - no increment - this is because the scale has changed) - net in 2010 is 27,894 - a 2.5% reduction compared to 2006. OK, no paycut is nice but in the context of an insolvent employer, a 2.5% net cut in a deflationary environment is not worth squealing about.
Again, would love to hear real examples of pay sector 2006 and 2010 gross and net so we can see how bad things really are...

 

[Caveat]

All the major banks have incremental structures as do the major Insurance companies

Which represent how much of the workforce?

and the multinationals

Source?

I would contend that most large companies have pay scales based on service.

And I would contend that they don't - but you made the claim, so, source?

 

[Purple]

All the major banks have incremental structures as do the major Insurance companies and the multinationals and of course all the semi states.

All the major banks are state owned.

 

[TarfHead]

All the major banks are state owned.

.. and, AFAIK, have had salaries frozen (i.e. no increment) since 2008.

This could have the same 'contractual basis' as suggested for the PS, but when your employer is broke ..

** some may have had increments and/or bonuses paid, they are the exception (similar to the senior civil servants who successfully lobbied the Minister for a u-turn).

 

[gianni]

.. and, AFAIK, have had salaries frozen (i.e. no increment) since 2008.

Not the case in AIB... (the first google I tried)

 

[Deiseblue]

Nor in the case of Bank of Ireland which is still a privately owned company quoted on the ISEQ where the Government are minority shareholders.

 

[pixiebean22]

In fairness I was made redundant and when I found a new job after a few months I had to take a €6,000 pay cut. Now, however, I'm back to what I was earning before I was made redundant and things are pretty good. In fact I went clothes shopping last week for the first time in nearly a year, that felt pretty good.

 

[Deiseblue]

Which represent how much of the workforce?



Source?



And I would contend that they don't - but you made the claim, so, source?

It's simply my view.

I know for a fact that the Banks and Insurance companies employ incremental structures,

The same applies to the semi states.

So we are talking about a considerable proportion of the workforce outside the Public Sector who use comparable incremental policies.

In terms of the multinationals and major Irish companies I can only depend on anecdotal info gleaned from employees and union colleagues and friends who work for same and my own experience having worked in multiple jobs across the private sector that most have pay scales related to years of service and of course to performance.

 

[Purple]

Nor in the case of Bank of Ireland which is still a privately owned company quoted on the ISEQ where the Government are minority shareholders.

It is as long as the government lets it. Nobody could reasonably suggest that it is not state controlled.

 

[TarfHead]

Not the case in AIB... (the first google I tried)

Not an increment (where your salary increases so long as you have a pulse ).

Nor in the case of Bank of Ireland which is still a privately owned company quoted on the ISEQ where the Government are minority shareholders.

Not so - I am am sure of my basis on this one