How can you have 23% Jobless households with 10% unemployment?

NoRegretsCoyote

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I guess a lot of this is down to assortive mating, ie, people hooking up with people very like them.

So you get a lot of households with two people working or no one working in Ireland. Rest of Europe probably has a higher share of households with one person at work.

Ireland also has a high lone-parent-with-kids rate which pushes up the numerator.
 

joe sod

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Why do we have more lone parents?
there are alot of statistics that pop out that nobody wants to investigate.
I think its also the case that the state does not follow up the fathers of these children for maintenance, many of these men father multiple children.
 

Purple

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Yes and no.

Ireland has a bigger share of <18s in general.

But the ratio of kids living with one parent to kids living with two parents is still higher in Ireland than most of EU.
Sure, but let's be honest here; a large proportion of those single parent families are in fact two parent families where the mother claims to be a lone parent so that she can get welfare and housing benefits.
Where I work it is the norm that the mother is a "lone parent" with the State paying for their house etc. In one case the state is renting the house from the father for the mother and children. He, of course, lives there too. basically you are paying their mortgage.
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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Sure, but let's be honest here; a large proportion of those single parent families are in fact two parent families where the mother claims to be a lone parent so that she can get welfare and housing benefits.
There is a common misconception about the reliability of these data.

These are CSO-sourced numbers based on household surveys. They are not drawn directly from DEASP records.

People of course lie to people conducting household surveys, but they lie much more when there is money and financial sanctions involved.

So there is probably an upward bias in these numbers, but it's probably not very much.
 

Purple

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There is a common misconception about the reliability of these data.

These are CSO-sourced numbers based on household surveys. They are not drawn directly from DEASP records.

People of course lie to people conducting household surveys, but they lie much more when there is money and financial sanctions involved.

So there is probably an upward bias in these numbers, but it's probably not very much.
When people are commiting fraud they seldom tell the truth about it, particularly to a state agency, so I very much doubt that they think to themselves "sure the CSO don't share information with the DSP so I'll let them know we are defrauding the State".
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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When people are commiting fraud they seldom tell the truth about it, particularly to a state agency, so I very much doubt that they think to themselves "sure the CSO don't share information with the DSP so I'll let them know we are defrauding the State".
So how incorrect are Ireland's reported numbers on lone parent status? In percentage points or thousands please.

I'd love to see your hunch quantified.
 

Purple

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So how incorrect are Ireland's reported numbers on lone parent status? In percentage points or thousands please.
I dunno, but my hunch is a valid as "So there is probably an upward bias in these numbers, but it's probably not very much. "
I'd love to see your hunch quantified.
So would I.
I can only speak about the anecdotal experience I have. That experience is that for people from the geographic area where I work who are in long term relationships it is the norm for the mother claims single parent benefits. The only time there was a serious attempt to address this was when Joan Burton was Minister in charge. During that time one of the people I know was ordered to repay a small portion of the money he and his partner had stolen from their neighbours.
 

Purple

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@Purple So you're not taking up the challenge. Fair enough.
What challenge?
Are you suggesting that I conduct a broad study of that 6.6% of families and somehow get them to be completely truthful about their familial and financial circumstances, something that all institutions of the State have failed to do (by your own admission) in order to answer a vague question on an internet discussion forum?
I think quitting my job, sourcing the millions of Euro of resources required to do such a thing, not to mention the years it would take, would be a disproportionate input on my part in the context of this discussion.
 
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NoRegretsCoyote

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@Purple

I'm saying that you've made an empirical claim, and it would be nice if you could put a number on it.

Based on these discussions I don't think you have a feel for the magnitudes involved, but I'd be happy if you could set me right.
 

Purple

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@Purple

I'm saying that you've made an empirical claim, and it would be nice if you could put a number on it.

Based on these discussions I don't think you have a feel for the magnitudes involved, but I'd be happy if you could set me right.
No, I said that I doubted your claim that "there is probably an upward bias in these numbers, but it's probably not very much"
 
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