Key Post House Extension

How does the process begin?

What's the sequence of events in building an extension?

I thought the first step was hiring an architect and than seeking quotes from builders in respect of the plan produced.

From reading this thread, however, it seems as if a more plausible option might be to seek quotes from a number of builders that include the cost of the architect?

Does this latter approach involve any risk of collusion between builder and architect or is this an unreasonable assumption to infer?

Thanks

B
 
Clarification

Bamboo

Just to clarify my situation. I hired an architect myself and the builder paid the fees. I initiall didnt want to due to costs (even though not that expensive and probably well worth doing) but the builder insisted that there was independent supervision of his work to avoid disput and also so that it was certifiable in the end.

If you use an architect from day one to design an extension, get planning etc then im sure the same guy would supervise for you.

All that said im sure there arent many builders out there who would pay architects fees on your behalf. My builder was obviously intent on maintaining his excellent reputation (as this was the reason I contacted him initially).

Hope this clarifies.
 
Extened

Thanks for your reply. It's sounds like the arrangement worked out well for you.

I going to e-mail the builder for a quote. However, I know some builders stick to their own areas for commuting reasons. Does this one work on the southside of Dublin? The quality of his work seems to be very high. Was he more expensive compared to other quotes you may have received?

Would you also recommend the architect? I'm looking for someone that can apply a bit of creativity to the somewhat limited scope I have for extending. Can I ask how he/she charged (i.e. was it percentage or flat fee-based)?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm anxious to move things along having dawdled for the last year or so. If there's any information you'd prefer not to post, I can be contacted at bamboo22@eircom.net

Many thanks

B
 
Extened

I’ve just had an extension done to my house in D6. I hired an architect and he drew up plans, ran the tender competition, supervised the work, looked after all dealings with the builder, etc. Everything went OK and the project was finished more or less on schedule and on budget. I had very limited scope for extending, i.e. 1,58 metres on two sides of the return of a terraced house, etc. and I’m very happy with the results. It airy and full of light and you would not know it is an extension and not part of the original building. There was no real snag list as the builder did everything as specified and there was a high standard of finish. Architects’ fees are based on a sliding scale depending on the cost of the work done. As they’ve rules on advertising I can’t publish the architect’s details but if anybody sends me an e-mail to paul-e.murphy@cec.eu.int over the next few weeks I can send on the details. Please note that I will only send details on the people who identify themselves and use a work or ISP e-mail address (i.e. no hotmails or yahoos).
 
Hi DJB,
Any chance you could tell me who did the work for you as it sounds a very good quote?

Thank you,
Seaview
 
Extension - surveyor?

Thanks for all this info on extensions. We're planning a garage conversion on our semi-d possibly going up to the second storey depending on cost. We spoke to an architect but his costs scared us. We were considering using a surveyor instead to draw up plans, manage the planning permission process and carry out checks on the building. Their fee of about 10% of build costs seems more reasonable than architect.

Has anyone used a surveyor instead or am I wrong in thinking this is cheaper than an architect would charge? I only got a quote from one architect as I had trouble finding any that were interested in a small job. Its taking so long to get this started and we desperately need the space for a newly mobile baby to move around in so any advice appreciated!
 
Re: >>cost of house extension

olympichero
Costs for house extension / sun room

We are considering having an extension constructed to our semi detached house. The house was originally built with a kitchen extension and we would basically fill in the gap. The dimensions would be 6.00 x 3.60m (20ft. x 12ft). It would also have a pitched tiled roof with approx. three roof lights. We are also considering having French doors. If anyone has had a similar type extension constructed especially in the Dublin area, perhaps you might be willing to share with us all how much it cost. Our extension would be East facing.

AmandaC
Sunroom Extension

My friend had one done and it sounds quite similar to what you want. Theirs was rather large(I am not sure what size) but had rooflights and french doors and a pine ceiling and some beautiful stonework outside. It turned out absolutely fantastic.

Her husband built it himself, but had to sub out parts of the work, roofing, and I think window fitting. If he had not used his own labour it would have cost them €30K.

dinny
sunroom cost

Hey,

We are getting a sunroom built,exact same size with two velux roof windows,standard finish inside(plaster,cement floor).Cheapest quote i have had is 30 grand plus vat(builder ).3 other quotes from conservatory/sunroom companys were around the 40 grand mark.

dinny

ColdFeet
Sunroom Cost

Similiar to Dinny we've just has a sunroom finished 18ft x 12 ft with 2 velux, slated roof, radiator, double doors, plaster finish inside, render outside, PVC windows/facsia/gutters, etc. Cost 35K included some 'arrangement' re part of the VAT - location north County Dublin.

Only thing missing is we have to paint it ourselves!!

Olympic Hero
Cost for Extension / Sunroom

Thanks, guys.

Observer
Frequent poster
Re: Costs for house extension / sun room

My neighbour had a very similar job done about a year ago for €33k. Its a lovely job but it seems disproportionate in terms the price for biulding an entire house?

hanraoi
Registered User
extension price in Dublin

Hi

I was wondering if anyone on the board has renovated a house in Dublin in the last year.

how much would the ball park figure be for extending a small kitchen and putting a new bathroom in upstairs above the kitchen.

The house is your standard Two Bed old style red brick that you see in town.

thanks

anon2398
extension price in Dublin

Hi there, people seem to hate to post prices here for some reason! I too am very intersted in a kitchen extension so look forward to reading replies to your post. I know it does depend on the size of the extension, and what you want to put in in terms of windows skylights, and the type of kitchen units etc etc etc. But I'm really interested in ball park prices i.e. 10-20k - 90-100K???

I just rewired and replumbed our house and am also about to replace windows so if those prices are any use, just let me know.

Hope someone else can help!

Bren
estimate

I've been told to estimate 200/sqft for an extension if that helps

Tall Chapy
Frequent poster
Re: estimate

Bren,

I heard recently a price of €22k for just over 220sq ft

Summer
Prices

The going rate for a new build/renovation is €85 to €95 per sq foot.

NotQS

Summer,

Would I be correct in thinking that that would not be including finishes or fitout ?

Summer
Prices

Hi NotQS,

No it does not include the cost of a kitchen or bathroom. But does include everything else.

Sane
house repairs

In the Uk if you have submitted plans for any work the council will always come out to see the project and how it has been done to comply with building regulations. Why does this not happen in Ireland it would save a lot of hassel with selling a property because it was passed by the council and give a pass certificate for any resale searches that is done by a purchaser

Ian
Do I need architect for extension?

We are planning a garage conversion with second story extension and a small extension out the back of our semi-d in Dublin. Architects cost a fortune (we were quoted almost 20K where our total budget is only 100K!) so since we have a good idea of what we want to do I was wondering if we could proceed without using an architect. If we go without an architect we will need an engineer to advise us on the structural feasibility of what we want to do, advise on meeting building regulations and to carry out occasional site checks to give us a certificate of compliance on completion. We also need someone to draw up plans and to submit them for planning permission.

We are fortunate in having two "trusted" builders to quote for the job. What I'm wondering is are we taking a risk by not hiring an architect or does it make sense since we don't need their design skills?

Will we need the engineer to draw up detailed plans for the builder or can we trust the builder to do this himself?
Is it naive to think that the builder will give us good advice on placement of windows and doors etc?

Also, if we go with just an engineer should we get him to draw up plans and process pl.permission or could someone else do it cheaper?

Thanks for any input anyone with experience in this area can offer. Its difficult to get consistent advice on how to proceed.

sueellen
Moderator
Re: Do I need architect for extension?

Hi Ian,

This key post might provide some useful info regarding architects and could possibly relate to your extension.

Nixer
Extension

Design fees should normally be in the order of 5% of the overall project cost.

Architects' and engineers' fees should be similar for a project like this. Unless you are planning something unusual or particularly extravagant with exotic detail and materials, the full design drawings and certificates could be produced by a chartered civil/structural engineer.

The chartered bit is important.

While most engineers could produce your design information and advise as to foundations and materials etc, you may need to get the work signed off for insurance/planning purposes.

The authorities would then expect the signatory to be a member of the respective professional body. (RIAI, IEI, etc). That's where the premium for the title comes in. Not necessarily for the design work itself.

You could try [broken link removed] or www.acei.ie/

Hope this helps.


N.

Ian
Need architect for garage conversion?

Thanks, someone said the following in that post you linked me to

"an engineer will provide ‘drawings’ for £1000.....Most builders can work from them and prefer the plans not to bee too detailed anyway. The crucial bit is the inspections and an engineer will do 6 of these for £1,000. "

So why bother paying 10% for an architect? Someone said the architect will make sure the finish on the building is correct? Is that not something you specify with the builder in the beginning and he has to keep to per his contract? It just seems to me like using an architect just adds E10,000 to my budget without adding much value?

paulief
Registered User
Re: Need architect for garage conversion?

Most engineers carry professional indemnity insurance in order to carry out the design, so do most architects . . . for that one stop shop effect go to a medium sized architctural practice. This type of office generally supplies all you will need in the way of paperwork and generally takes a hands on approach.

You need your architect to ensure that the drawing and its application are in accordance with planning regulations in order to get permission with the local authority. Also if you ever decide to sell your property all will have to be in order or you will founder on the sale.

TOH
Paying a builder up front for an extension

Hi there,

My husband I and I are all set to add a large double storey extension to our house. Everything is in order and we have a builder lined up. The problem is he is demanding quite a large sum up front before the work has even commenced. On the one hand he has completed several extensions in our area and the neighbours are very pleased but on the other hand I have heard that it is not the norm to pay a builder any money until after the foundations are laid. Can anybody clarify this matter or give any advice on what we should do now? Also is it advisable for us to get a solicitor to check out the contract?

TOH


Burgessbrendan
Founder of Askaboutmoney
Re: House extension

What does the contract say about payment?

Someone has to take a risk. If the builder starts without getting paid, he stands to lose out.

Is it a large payment in the context of the total price?

He might agree to a cheque post-dated to one week after he is due to start. Then if he doesn't show up, cancel the cheque.

It is difficult to get a good builder and I wouldn't simply refuse to pay him unless you have an alternative.

Brendan

Tom
Paying up front

I recently had an extension done, worth 70k.It was 2 weeks before money was mentioned and I was asked for 30 k in a weeks time.I thought it was fair enough as a lot of work had been done by then, they were up to roof frame stage by then.

Dolly
Post-dating a cheque

Be aware that if you post-date a cheque, he can still cash it before the date. I learned this to my cost, and in a (heated!) discussion with the bank, they said that once a cheque is written, you have to be able to honour it on presentation, regardless of the date. Maybe it depends on the bank - in my case it was BofI....I now bank with NIB

Marie
Registered User
paying builders

When the builder I employed built a new bathroom and refurbished kitchen the arrangement in advance was that the money be paid in three "tranches"; he asked for one-third before he commenced (to cover materials), one-third half-way through the agreed work, the remaining third on the date he gave for completion.

In my view this is a good plan. In my case the work was still way behind schedule on the date given for completion. If you have this arrangement the builder is not left with risk and expenses and you have some leverage to get what you paid for, to the standard, within the time.

My advice; get it all in writing IN ADVANCE and specify as closely as possible all the details. If you can afford it (a two-storey extension is quite a big project) get a surveyor to specify. Hope it goes well.
 
Re: Thanks extended

You pay for what you get. My rules;

Employ a GOOD architect.
Employ an insured building contractor
Make sure he is a Ltd company [ie registered-fully]
Make sure he is C2 registered [main contractor]
Make sure he is qualified as a civil engineer [ie you wouldnt let a plumber design your house so why a carpenter build from Architect plans]

[ps we used Atfar construction two directors both qualified and a qualified architect!]
[ps2 retention is 10% for one year]
[ps3 you cant but a 250k car for 1 euro - things are cheaper for a reason]
[ps4 if your builder is NOT insured and a scaffold falls on your childs (eg/etc) head - you are at fault and he is nowhere to be found]
 
Re: Key Post: House Extension

We are building an extension to our house in Waterford and wondering whether to go direct labour or contract. Planning on building on 900sq. feet and if we should stay on the ground or go up. House is presently a standard three bedroom bungalow in the country. Would genuinely appreciate your suggestions.
 
Re: Key Post: House Extension

Hi am looking to start an extension and am at the drawing up plans stage..does anyone know what the rules are re. trying to add a 2 story extension to a semi-d?? am assuming i cant go the whole way across to the join with my neighbour given i will be blocking light etc. if i have to drop to one story on his side i will lose the possibility of an extra bedroom. any help would be much appreciated. thanks
 
Re: Key Post: House Extension

One stop said:
Hi
I have a small construction comapny and we would be very intrested in quoting for the extension if you like. One of the main advantages of dealing with us is that we handle everything from the drawings, planning if necessary , all the trades. Its a real pain in th ebut dealing with all these different aspects of the build if you are not use to it and to be honest the price wont be that much mor expensive and you will be able to sleep at night....you vant put a price on that
Click to expand...

John, I'm afraid you're between 2 and 5 years too late for this work.
 
We got some very high spec drawings done first. Because these drawings where so detailed we were able to tender it to loads of builders and get a fixed competitive price. Our architect was also able to produce some really cool 3d drawings which really helped us visualize how our extension would look.He has a website called www.designmyhome.ie he did a planning pack for us for only 1.7K which was well worth it as we saved a fair bit with finding the right builder. hope this helps?
 
adwyer said:
We got some very high spec drawings done first. Because these drawings where so detailed we were able to tender it to loads of builders and get a fixed competitive price. Our architect was also able to produce some really cool 3d drawings which really helped us visualize how our extension would look.He has a website called [broken link removed] he did a planning pack for us for only 1.7K which was well worth it as we saved a fair bit with finding the right builder. hope this helps?
Click to expand...

Hi,

Welcome to AAM.

Can you confirm if you have any association with the recommended company. Resurrecting such an old thread and making a recommendation as a 1st time poster can make contributors both wary and suspicious.

Sue Ellen,
Moderator.
 
I just found this forum... are there any new threads discussing home extensions? I don't want to resurrect as you say...
 
DaveyByrne, it is a key post so I doubt there is any issue with bringing it to life. There are plenty of threads on specific items to do with extensions, planning and the like.

Ask away.
 
Ok, thanks - I'm still not 100% sure what a 'key post' is anyway.

But my issue is this:

We're thinking of putting a sun-room out the back of our house (I know... should be called a "rain-room")

Some friends of ours recently got an extension, and there were a list of "extras" at the end that the builder tacked on, and charged extra. They were things that they didn't think about beforehand, but they felt that the builder must surely have known about these.

What's the best way of ensuring you don't get caught in this trap? Is it always that you should engage an architect to draw up plans, and almost get someone like a "quantity surveyor" to work out what everything's going to cost in minute detail before you get the job done? This seems a bit much... it's like the age-old problem with tendering. The builder will deliberately come in with a low quote, and a not-very-detailed project plan, and then charge you for the extras, and make his money that way...

Is there any solution around this? Independent project-managers or something? Contracts?
 
Variations and extras are a result of poor planning in the initial stages.

A good architect or project manager will walk you through your proposal and identify areas where decisions need to be made in relation to selection of materials.

The more planning and considerations you can do yourself the less of an impact there will be on your budgets. If you are able to clearly identify a 'brief' to a contractor during the tendering stage you are less likely to encounter unexpected changes along the way.

Very often the most common variations occur as a result of clients changing their minds about materials or during the course of the project realising that it may be a better idea to refurbish other areas of the house while the general disruption is occuring.

Additional scope of works is a big factor in cost variations as there can be a huge impact on the project schedule, planning, material sourcing, laobur recall for additional works etc. These may be considered at the outset by the contractor / architect / QS etc but due to your budget constraints they may be excluded from discussion at the planning stage.

The best advice I can give is for you to write a description of what you would like to achieve, how big you wish to build, general standard of finish, window type etc and send it out to several contractors for a indicative budget to build.

Once you get your head around the budget figures, you are not looking for the lowest price or otherwise at this stage, establish how much you are willing to spend and relative to your brief, how far you would like to go in terms of the project. Are you willing to outfit the rooms yourself, flooring, painting, kitchens etc or are you seeking a turnkey service.

With your overall budget in mind you can now get the project designed, through planning if necessary, and then re-invite your panel of contractors to submit a competitive tender on the basis of your drawings and specification.

You should eliminate most of the variations by being clear in your objectives.

Sean
 
DaveyByrne said:
Ok, thanks - I'm still not 100% sure what a 'key post' is anyway.

But my issue is this:

We're thinking of putting a sun-room out the back of our house (I know... should be called a "rain-room")

Some friends of ours recently got an extension, and there were a list of "extras" at the end that the builder tacked on, and charged extra. They were things that they didn't think about beforehand, but they felt that the builder must surely have known about these.

What's the best way of ensuring you don't get caught in this trap? Is it always that you should engage an architect to draw up plans, and almost get someone like a "quantity surveyor" to work out what everything's going to cost in minute detail before you get the job done? <snip>

Is there any solution around this? Independent project-managers or something? Contracts?
Click to expand...

You're asking and answering the same query yourself.

Place yourself in the hands of a good architect.
Retain a QS as noted below and an engineer to design the beams and foundations.
Go for a budget cost estimate as opposed to a full Bill of Quantities.
Include a detailed specification and 1:50 drawings with everything noted thereon.
Decide on EVERYTHING before going to tender and then stick to what you decided.
Have all fittings selected before you tender and specify everything, down to the type of light switch and door handles you want to use.
Specify the paint finish and RAL colour, have a sample of the skirting board ready, leave nothing out.
Do some preliminary pricing of items yourself.
Leave nothing unspecified.
Carefully scrutinize all the tender prices with your QS.
Carefully review past examples of the contractors work.
Don't be afraid to ask for references from past clients.
That's really the only way to keep a handle on costs.

FWIW

ONQ.

[broken link removed]
 
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