Hike for bus and rail travellers

Sunny said:
But you still need to tag off either on the bus when getting off or at the bus stop so it can calculate the fare so a Luas like system would be next to impossible to use.
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No mention of 'tagging off' the bus on the instructions on leapcard.ie - the full 2.20 is charged if you tag on using the reader on the right side. If you want a lower fare, you have to use the driver's ticket machine.
 
Complainer said:
No mention of 'tagging off' the bus on the instructions on leapcard.ie - the full 2.20 is charged if you tag on using the reader on the right side. If you want a lower fare, you have to use the driver's ticket machine.
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Yeah I know. It's just when people are saying that it is a shame that they didn't introduce the same system as the Luas, it's not practical. People tag on and off the Luas at the various stops. Since you can't expect Dublin bus to put a machine at every single stop, people would need to tag on and off on the bus but then you would have people getting off the bus competing with people getting on the bus to tag on and off. Think it works better for rail rather than buses. Years since I used buses in london. Is it the same there does anyone know?
 
London buses and trams have a flat fare.

So you tag on the bus. But no tagging off.

2011 fares

2.20 cash / 1.30 Oyster / daily Oyster price cap of 4.00


2012 fares

2.30 cash / 1.35 Oyster / daily Oyster price cap of 4.20 / monthly bus pass = 72.20
 
http://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/

The Dutch smart-card system seems to involve readers when exiting the bus.

So it seems you do tag-on and tag-off on the bus.

The fare is a fixed 79c per trip + a distance fee depending per km where you live.

Key point: the 79c is charged once, so if you switch to a different bus / tram during the same trip you are not charged the 79c again.

The Leap system doesn't allow that yet, but it will eventually.
 
Sunny said:
Yeah I know. It's just when people are saying that it is a shame that they didn't introduce the same system as the Luas, it's not practical. People tag on and off the Luas at the various stops. Since you can't expect Dublin bus to put a machine at every single stop, people would need to tag on and off on the bus but then you would have people getting off the bus competing with people getting on the bus to tag on and off. Think it works better for rail rather than buses. Years since I used buses in london. Is it the same there does anyone know?
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I think the flat fare system which London operates is best all round. It takes away any ambiguity. If you're on the bus, you have had to tag on. If you go one stop or travel for an hour the cost is the same. The simplicity is its strength.
 
Complainer said:
No mention of 'tagging off' the bus on the instructions on leapcard.ie - the full 2.20 is charged if you tag on using the reader on the right side. If you want a lower fare, you have to use the driver's ticket machine.
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Like i said earlier - its a stupid system for Dublin Bus. Even if they cannot put readers at every stop, i'm sure they could have used a better system than the one they have implemented. How do other countries do it ? Dublin is hardly a major metropolis like, say, Toronto.
 
redstar said:
Like i said earlier - its a stupid system for Dublin Bus. Even if they cannot put readers at every stop, i'm sure they could have used a better system than the one they have implemented. How do other countries do it ? Dublin is hardly a major metropolis like, say, Toronto.
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Any chance of a suggestion rather than a rant?

Virtually 95% of Dublin Buses are 1 door only - if the fleet was 2 door you could tag off at the rear door - they're not so you can't. If you were to tag off at the front (only) door you would be blocking people getting onto the bus leading to longer dwell times at the stops leading to longer journey times leading to fewer passengers.

The only solution is a flat fare which given that DB are losing money hand over fist leads to real trepidation as to what level the flat fare should be set at, it's not as easy as you seem to think.
 
In fairness, they are only at the start of what I've heard mentioned is a 12 month roll out of the card, with capping, season tickets and free travel all to come, + Bus Eireann and the independent bus operators

As for a flat fare, fine in theory, but it would probably result in a fare rise for people travelling short distances.
 
dereko1969 said:
Virtually 95% of Dublin Buses are 1 door only - if the fleet was 2 door you could tag off at the rear door - they're not so you can't.
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I noticed this was being implemented when I lived in Dublin. Seems absurd. Was there ever any official reason for this because it seems to be the norm everywhere else.
 
I think the difference in London and Dublin in terms of bus journeys is that in Dublin people tend to take the bus for the entire length of the route. People get on in the city and off in Swords or Dun Laoghaire. In London, the bus routes are often longer but people only use short stretches of the journey instead of sitting on it the whole way.
 
Firefly said:
I noticed this was being implemented when I lived in Dublin. Seems absurd. Was there ever any official reason for this because it seems to be the norm everywhere else.
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I've heard a couple of reasons - bus stops not correctly aligned so drivers fearful of being sued for people injuring themselves getting off buses at the rear doors - fear of people bunking onto the buses and not paying - the amount of time I saw our European brethren obediently waiting at the middle doors (where there was a sign saying exit by middle doors only) to be let off only to be shouted at by the driver to come up front!

I'd blame the drivers mostly, the buses were bought with double doors and then not used.
 
dereko1969 said:
I've heard a couple of reasons - bus stops not correctly aligned so drivers fearful of being sued for people injuring themselves getting off buses at the rear doors - fear of people bunking onto the buses and not paying - the amount of time I saw our European brethren obediently waiting at the middle doors (where there was a sign saying exit by middle doors only) to be let off only to be shouted at by the driver to come up front!

I'd blame the drivers mostly, the buses were bought with double doors and then not used.
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I've seen this too and it is quite embarrasing. A simple sign over the middle doors telling foreigners in the most popular foreign languages would fix this...even better would be to use the bleedin doors!
 
Complainer said:
The smart card devices are already on the buses. I'm guessing that the limitation is that they are not location sensitive - so they have no GPS tracker or other technology that will let the smartcard reader know what stop they are at when the person tags on.
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The paper tickets issued when paying cash indicate what stage you're on and what stage you've paid up for. So the existing technology has location capacity, I presume manually updated by the driver as they move from stage to stage. Too much to expect them to integrate systems though.
 
dereko1969 said:
Any chance of a suggestion rather than a rant?

Virtually 95% of Dublin Buses are 1 door only - if the fleet was 2 door you could tag off at the rear door - they're not so you can't. If you were to tag off at the front (only) door you would be blocking people getting onto the bus leading to longer dwell times at the stops leading to longer journey times leading to fewer passengers.

The only solution is a flat fare which given that DB are losing money hand over fist leads to real trepidation as to what level the flat fare should be set at, it's not as easy as you seem to think.
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Well, this is letting off steam forum so I'm entitled to rant ! :)

My initial post had a suggestion - tagon/tagoff, like rail.

As for dwell times, have you ever waited behind a passenger while they searched for their exact change ...

Also, their prepaid cards for lower-fare journies were quite good until they withdrew them. Now i have to carry 1.20 for every bus journey. Progress ?
 
Leo said:
So the existing technology has location capacity, I presume manually updated by the driver as they move from stage to stage.
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Aren't buses now 'location aware' (aka GPS) to support the real time information on some bus stops ?
 
TarfHead said:
Aren't buses now 'location aware' (aka GPS) to support the real time information on some bus stops ?
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I thought that too. Funily the service seems to tell you (roughly) how long away the bus will be (which can only ever be an estimate with traffic etc) rather than where the bus actually is (which IMO would be better). I presume this is so the public can't see the usual bunching of buses going on.
 
redstar said:
Well, this is letting off steam forum so I'm entitled to rant ! :)

My initial post had a suggestion - tagon/tagoff, like rail.

As for dwell times, have you ever waited behind a passenger while they searched for their exact change ...

Also, their prepaid cards for lower-fare journies were quite good until they withdrew them. Now i have to carry 1.20 for every bus journey. Progress ?
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It had already been pointed out what the difficulties in tagging off in a single door situation are before you made your ill-informed point.

If you're paying 1.20 for your journey you should probably walk though you will get a discount if you use the leap card. It will entail talking to the bus driver though having a card should be quicker than fumbling for change.
 
I think the tax relief scheme is completely inflexable.

What is you loose you job within the 12 months or if your hours are cut?

Committing to buy a ticket for a period of 52 weeks is too long.

Another point is that it is high time that competition was introduced on all bus routes.


Monopolys are bad - bloated + inefficent.
 
dereko1969 said:
It had already been pointed out what the difficulties in tagging off in a single door situation are before you made your ill-informed point.

If you're paying 1.20 for your journey you should probably walk though you will get a discount if you use the leap card. It will entail talking to the bus driver though having a card should be quicker than fumbling for change.
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Well, it seems a hi-tech solution is not suitable for Dublin Bus. The prepaid card solution was much better - no cash, no tagon/tagoff, no dwell time - simple for the customer.

BTW..Don't assume every one is in a position to walk for a 1.20 journey. Ill-informed comment i think ;)
 
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