High Court upholds PTSB's challenge to Ombudsman's decision on tracker mortgages

Status
Not open for further replies.
The High Court upheld the Ombudsman's decision in this case and stated that he was very reluctant to interfere with the Ombudsman's decision.

As the 4 other cases involve PTSB challenging the Ombudsman's decisions in favour of mortgage holders, this case should make you more optimistic, and not less optimistic.

I am trying to get the other cases but I am having no luck.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Just to further clarify (in my own head anyway :))

Initially Ombudsman found in favor of the customer.

PTSB appealed to the High Court based on the fact they had no fiduciary obligation to the customer).

Judge sent the case back for review to the ombudsman (This I'm not clear about. I know there was a point of law where the judge didnt uphold the appeal, but advised the ombudsman to review and endorse findings with the consumer protection laws rather than relying on fiduciary obligation on the lenders side). At this point the ombudsman mailed out all the people who have cases of similar merit advising that until there was a judgement there would be no further progress. Depending on the judgement, the cases may then move to investigation phase.

Came up again and the judge reserved judgement in early July.

Today judge upholds ombudsmans decision as per other thread.

Is that a reasonable synopsis?

So customers in similar situation to myself (those in this thread taldar, kaza etc) should expect a letter later this week from the ombudsman advising their cases move to investigation stage?

Forgive me if I've gotten wires crossed, but thats my reading on it and welcome correction
 
Hi GettingThere

I do not think you are far off the mark there, the only thing is we have not seen the Judgement about the case that involves our issue.

As far as i can see it is essentially a test case using the CPC 2006 with the High court as the bank keep appealing the FSO decisions in favour of customers, so whatever happens in this case will happen in ours.
 
There seems to be three or four cases where PTSB is appealing the Ombudsman's decisions. I can't find reports of these cases anywhere.

The judgements are due this week, but they might be delayed
 
Would have thought there to be some coverage of this in the media (irishtimes.com used to have commentary on cases like this).
Anyway, havent got a letter yet from the ombudsman (please post if you get one). Am expecting one in the coming wee stating that my case is moving to investigation following the decision by the court not to uphold the appeal by the PTSB...

The rate moving from 6.19% to 4.34 has meant my mortgage has gone from 2025 pm to 1775, but the possibility of returning to a tracker of ECB +1.1 would make another huge dent in the outlay...

Here's hoping...

Good luck
 
Received a letter from FSO yesterday stating that we are still waiting judgement from the High Court and until judgement is delivered he will not be in a position to advise further as to timeframes or outcomes..
It is hoped that judgement will be delivered very shortly and upon considering the outcome of the high court the bureau will be in contact with all parties.
Guess we just have to wait and see.
 
if PTSB are found to have been over charging peoples mortgages, you shoudl make sure that PTSB apply the overcharged amount against your principal and back date it to the actual dates they received the money. At that point PTSB should also be pressed to recalculate interest on the mortgage. This could have significant savings for people.


that is unless you need the overcharged amounts back.
 
daheff said:
you shoudl make sure that PTSB apply the overcharged amount against your principal ....

that is unless you need the overcharged amounts back.
Click to expand...

Hi da

That is not correct. In fact, the lenders have done this in some cases where the Ombudsman found against them, and the customer had to go back to the Ombudsman to get the overpayment paid directly to them and not just set against their mortgage.

Let's say that the mortgage today has a balance outstanding of €150,000

1) PTSB should recalculate your account applying the correct interest rates going back to when they first charged the wrong rates.
2) That will give a corrected balance of €140,000 today.
3) You should get a cheque for the €10,000 difference and you can choose what to do with it.

This is very important. If they had charged the right rates, you would owe them €140,000 today. For most people, that is where they want to be.

If you have overpaid by €10,000 you should get a direct refund of €10,000 and you may prefer to pay off a credit card or a car loan.

Most people would not pay off a cheap tracker unless the lender gives them an incentive to do so.

Brendan
 
hope64 said:
Received a letter from FSO yesterday stating that we are still waiting judgement from the High Court and until judgement is delivered he will not be in a position to advise further as to timeframes or outcomes..
It is hoped that judgement will be delivered very shortly and upon considering the outcome of the high court the bureau will be in contact with all parties.
Guess we just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

I have not recieved the letter yet but it makes me very nervous that the Judge has not delivered his judgement on this yet and has delayed it again.

I would say there is alot going on in the background of this case.
 
Has anyone received any further letters from the FSO regarding the status of these cases? We are now coming to the end of August and still no clearer in what is actually happening.
Appreciate any updates...?
 
Hey guys, Same situation here. Though we are only in the process of writing to PTSB.
The Final letter from PTSB that you need to have before going to the FSO...what is that exactly? Do you need to send the initial letter via a solicitor or is a letter from ourselves sufficient?
 
@smithcat

No news yet and I think the courts are on holidays but not sure.

We are still waiting on High Court Judgment.
 
AppleSun said:
Hey guys, Same situation here. Though we are only in the process of writing to PTSB.
The Final letter from PTSB that you need to have before going to the FSO...what is that exactly? Do you need to send the initial letter via a solicitor or is a letter from ourselves sufficient?
Click to expand...

After you write to PTSB stating your complaint there may be some communications over and back. If their customer service do not satisfy your requests, you can ask them if this is their final letter on the matter when you advise that you will pursue case with ombudsman.
They will be quick to advise that this is their final letter.

Thats all you need..no solicitor etc. Engage the ombudsman who will impartially review and advise on next steps
 
Recieved a letter from the FSO this morning saying they were awaiting 4 verdicts in the courts, they won two and lost two but no orders have been passed down yet so they are still waiting on this for our cases.

Not sure which cases are which but sure we still have a fighting chance!
 
taldar said:
Recieved a letter from the FSO this morning saying they were awaiting 4 verdicts in the courts, they won two and lost two but no orders have been passed down yet so they are still waiting on this for our cases.

Not sure which cases are which but sure we still have a fighting chance!
Click to expand...

What do they mean, do you know, when they say "No orders have been passed down yet"? Is it not as simple the case was won or lost? Or am I missing something?
 
I have carried out my daily routine of checking this valuable resource along with the independent.ie (personal finance section) and courts.ie

On the courts website I found the following document that was uploaded on the 7th Sept -> go to courts website -> sitemap -> judgements
"Irish Life and Permanent Plc -v- Financial Services Ombudsman & Ors"

It provides overviews of the 4 cases against PTSB along with the Judge findings. For me I believe the Healy case is most representative of my issues. From reading between the lines I believe the Judge upheld the Financial Ombudsman findings and therefore this couple should be able to go back on the tracker mortgage. This is great news if I have understood correctly.

@Brendan maybe you could review and either confirm/reject my current understanding...

Here's hoping anyway :)
 
Looks interesting...4 cases appealed and the conclusions of the appeals are:


A. In Foley appeal I propose to make an order pursuant to s. 57CL(2)(b) of the Act of 1942 setting aside the findings and direction of the Ombudsman, together with an order pursuant to s. 57CL(2)(c) remitting the finding to the Ombudsman.

B. I propose to make an identical order in the Lavery and Lavery-Whelan appeal.

C. In the Thomas appeal I propose to make an order pursuant to s.57CL(2)(a) affirming the finding of the Financial Services Ombudsman.

D. In the Healy appeal I propose to make an order pursuant to s. 57CL(2)(a) affirming the finding of the Financial Services Ombudsman, but I will also direct that certain passages (the nature of which I will discuss with counsel) stand edited and removed from the decision of 9th August, 2011.
 
That is my reading of it too, will seriously be delighted if we get this sorted in our favour.

The FSO letter I got stated they will have a decision before the end of October.

Taldar
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top