Gordon Gekko
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Where is the accountability in terms of Revenue wasting taxpayers' money on a case that most people agree that they are destined to lose?
Absolutely scandalous, the legal profession in this country must be laughing at the Government, when you make a mistake admit it, pay it or refund it and move on. Next it will Irish water refunds or the VRT (think the VRT is next in line)Where is the accountability in terms of Revenue wasting taxpayers' money on a case that most people agree that they are destined to lose?
Absolutely scandalous, the legal profession in this country must be laughing at the Government, when you make a mistake admit it, pay it or refund it and move on. Next it will Irish water refunds or the VRT (think the VRT is next in line)
Where is the accountability in terms of Revenue wasting taxpayers' money on a case that most people agree that they are destined to lose?
There's a reason why there are different levels / tiers of courts in the judiciary you know - do you think there should be no right of appeal in relation to matters of civil law?
Assuming you don't hold that view (which would be pretty dangerous and potentially liable to result in plenty of injustice), is it just the state that shouldn't be allowed access to the same recourse in the courts?
I'm trying to understand the rationale here after the ranting is done... help me out?!
There's a reason why there are different levels / tiers of courts in the judiciary you know - do you think there should be no right of appeal in relation to matters of civil law?
Assuming you don't hold that view (which would be pretty dangerous and potentially liable to result in plenty of injustice), is it just the state that shouldn't be allowed access to the same recourse in the courts?
I'm trying to understand the rationale here after the ranting is done... help me out?!
They're directly accountable to the Minister for Finance, and to the Oireachtas via the PAC.
I'm surprised that so many people are taking so much umbrage with the separation of powers and the perfectly healthy operation of the different arms of the State in fulfilling their own individual functions independently of each other.
In terms of wasting taxpayers' money:
- If Revenue accept the current position, the State will end up probably refunding at least a couple of million to claimants. (Anyone want to estimate how many will claim the extra €200 deduction, and what the average rate of tax across that group would be...?!)
- The costs of the action to date are sunk costs in the context of a decision whether to proceed to the Court of Appeal.
- If the cost of the further appeal are (say) €100k, and the legal advice of counsel is that there is even a modest prospect of success (say 30%) then the expected outcome has a positive value i.e. 30% X €2m of tax saved, minus €100k legal costs = €500k. (The €2m of tax loss if the appeal fails isn't relevant, as it crystallises immediately if an appeal isn't taken.
- Unless the further legal costs would be very high or the expected loss to the exchequer was very low, it's hard to see how a responsible tax authority would justify NOT continuing with the appeal.
And there we have it, the reason for the appeal. To make sure the four years it up totally. Clever clever clever.
On the Revenue's website today;
"A recent decision of the High Court on the deductibility against rental profits of the Non Principal Private Residence charge (NPPR) has been appealed by Revenue to the Court of Appeal. Until that appeal is decided Revenue is not in a position to amend assessments or process repayment claims based on the High Court judgement.
While there is a general right to repayment of tax provided for in Section 865 of the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 where a person has paid an amount of tax which is not due, that right is subject to a limit of four years from the end of the chargeable period to which the claim relates. That four year limit is binding on Revenue.
As noted above, Revenue is not in a position to amend assessments or process repayment claims until the outcome of the Appeal case is known. However, any claims that are received within the statutory time limits, as they apply to each year of assessment, will be retained by Revenue; and processed when the outcome of the Appeal case is known. For example, if the decision of the Court of Appeal is made in 2018, any claim made in 2017 in respect of the year of assessment 2013 will be retained and processed in 2018.
If you have paid the NPPR charge for 2013 and wish to notify Revenue to deduct the payment from your previously declared rental income, an online notification facility will be available shortly on revenue.ie.
Once the outcome of this Appeal is known Revenue will process this claim and contact you, if appropriate.
15 March 2017"
How do you come to that conclusion Bronte? I thought it clearly showed how you can submit your claim this year in order not to miss the boat if the appeal is lost - in the below section. Did I misread that?Oh that's lovely wishy wash stuff from them.
Watch this space guys:
If the appeal is won, they have it covered, too late for anyone to claim it back.
If the appeal is lost, they have it covered, we made a mistake folks, but it's too late.
As noted above, Revenue is not in a position to amend assessments or process repayment claims until the outcome of the Appeal case is known. However, any claims that are received within the statutory time limits, as they apply to each year of assessment, will be retained by Revenue; and processed when the outcome of the Appeal case is known. For example, if the decision of the Court of Appeal is made in 2018, any claim made in 2017 in respect of the year of assessment 2013 will be retained and processed in 2018.
If you have paid the NPPR charge for 2013 and wish to notify Revenue to deduct the payment from your previously declared rental income, an online notification facility will be available shortly on revenue.ie.
Once the outcome of this Appeal is known Revenue will process this claim and contact you, if appropriate.
On the Revenue's website today;
15 March 2017"
You make me laugh, how many landlords even look at revenue websites.
Never mind that, revenue abjectively failed when this tax came in to make sure all landlords even know about NPPR. Especially those of us abroad like me. It would have been ever so simple for revenue to have told us by circular, like the one I got a couple of weeks ago about the new appeals process. Not a thing, nada. And how many people got caught out paying thousands.
Never mind that, revenue abjectively failed when this tax came in to make sure all landlords even know about NPPR.
If I didn't know better I'd swear someone was reading AAM !An article of interest to some today... http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ims-even-if-they-can-t-be-processed-1.3012885
The NPPR was neither introduced by nor under the care and management of the Revenue Commissioners, so I'm not sure why you think it would be their responsibility to make landlords aware of it?
What about the NPPR-liable non-landlords, who simply own a second home or holiday home... should Revenue (or whomever else you want to hold responsible) have somehow known to tell them too?
The most practical way to do it would've been a flyer through every letterbox in the country, for the attention of the owner.
Why would Revenue notify anybody about a local authority rate? The NPPR had nothing to do with Revenue.
As I said, unbelievably important for landlords as tax payers. It was a significant amount to deduct, particularly if like me, you have property subdivided.