Hey smug Enda. I didn't spend spend spend.

The truth is like a dessert after a big meal - you'll only have it if you're able for it...

A VERY big meal was had in this country by an awful lot of people.

Oh, and +1 to pretty much everything Purple has said above
 
I can see how it rankles with those who paid top dollar to "get on the property ladder" cos "it will be too late". They are now in negative equity for the heinous crime of wanting a home to bring up their family. I have every sympathy for them.

On the other hand you had the property bores with their portfolio in Ireland, Bulgaria, Turkey & Spain and dahling you really ought to get your snout in the trough. I have much less (if any) sympathy for them, they were driven by greed, they borrowed way more than was sustainable (or only sustainable in a never ending boom), as opposed to expecting to repay debt out of earned income.

If Enda could have drawn that distinction - which maybe he had in his own mind but failed to articulate - then I dont think many would disagree.
 
Betsy Og said:
I can see how it rankles with those who paid top dollar to "get on the property ladder" cos "it will be too late". They are now in negative equity for the heinous crime of wanting a home to bring up their family. I have every sympathy for them.

On the other hand you had the property bores with their portfolio in Ireland, Bulgaria, Turkey & Spain and dahling you really ought to get your snout in the trough. I have much less (if any) sympathy for them, they were driven by greed, they borrowed way more than was sustainable (or only sustainable in a never ending boom), as opposed to expecting to repay debt out of earned income.

If Enda could have drawn that distinction - which maybe he had in his own mind but failed to articulate - then I dont think many would disagree.
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I totally agree with this. As someone who bought an apartment in a very ordinary area at the top of the market simply because I was getting to a stage in life where it was either 'buy now or remain in rented property for the rest of your life' I really resent being lumped in with the people who splashed money around on multiple annual holidays, designer clothes, unneccessary additions and improvements to their homes, big fancy cars etc. There is a huge difference.
 
Pique318 said:
Stop being so bleedin sensitive though. It's a statement about the people, not 'you' personally.
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I agree, I often wonder why people set so annoyed about these kind of statements, they never bother me.

I know I wasn't one of these poeple but don't feel an urge to tell enda that.

I didn't go mad back in the day. Well I have more shoes than I need but I don't have all the shoes I want so I think that is a good compromise.

I have some savings, and no debt. I'm now looking at buying a house now (knocked that on the head in 2007) but my rented accommadation is very cheap so I don't feel under pressure to move.
 
Purple said:
Sure teachers took credit for the boom because they’d educated our “highly educated workforce” in our “world-class education system”. They peddled that line of guff in order to justify the massive pay increases they looked for (and got). I haven’t heard them saying that the crash is their fault because they produced a generation of financially illiterate gombeens who didn’t see the blindingly obvious.
It’s human nature to take credit for the good things and blame others for the bad.
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Yes, I have to agree with all that. But I also note that the people who gave out those payrises were the government. It's the government I hold first and foremost responsible for the state of the country. And that is not just politicians, but also their advisors.

Government want the benefits of responsibility, but will take none of the action that is required of true leaders. They fail to act responsibly practically all the time. Their eyes are on future elections and populism. Populism more often than not, will lead to failure.

No group in power has ever given up power without being forced to. The government and vested interests that run this country will never give up power voluntarily. More government is not the answer to a problem that has been caused by government. We need a whole new system, and we have yet to find the person or people who will give it to us. This person, on the basis of the taoiseach's speach, is not Enda Kenny
 
liaconn said:
I totally agree with this. As someone who bought an apartment in a very ordinary area at the top of the market simply because I was getting to a stage in life where it was either 'buy now or remain in rented property for the rest of your life' I really resent being lumped in with the people who splashed money around on multiple annual holidays, designer clothes, unneccessary additions and improvements to their homes, big fancy cars etc. There is a huge difference.
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I don't know if the distinction is massive. I moved in 2004 from a 4 bed semi to a larger 4 bed detached house and more than doubled the size of my mortgage. We moved because the family was getting bigger but we could have stayed where we were and have almost no mortgage now. Nobody forced us to move and we did so knowing that we were in the middle of a bubble and knowing that prices would drop so we did so for quality of life, not financial gain. If things go bad for us and we end up with no house then that's our own fault, not the banks or the government.
 
I think the reaction has been, as has become usual, hysterical. Both the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance have been guilty recently of making sweeping generalisations.

That is all.
 
TarfHead said:
I think the reaction has been, as has become usual, hysterical. Both the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance have been guilty recently of making sweeping generalisations.

That is all.
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We in Ireland don't do violent protest. But we do a brisk trade in hysterical reaction :)
 
I think people are losing sight of a few things. We are not in this mess because people decided to buy overpriced property. We are in this mess because we had a Government that decided to base a large percentage of our spending on tax revenue obtained from one sector of the economy. We are in this mess because instead of taking steps to cool an overheating economy, we shoved McCreevy off to Brussels and continued to offer huge tax breaks for property related items and lowered other taxes. We are in this mess because there was a huge amount of cheap liquidity within the financial system and banks were desperate to do deals. We are in this mess because of incompetent bankers. We are in this mess because those banks were not regulated properly by the people who were supposed to be doing it. We are in this mess because someone like Sean Quinn decided he wanted to get rich without any consideration for anything other than his own wealth. We are in this mess because of the world financial crisis. We are in this mess because we allowed banks become too big to fail and losses had to be bourne by the taxpayer. Could go on and on and on.....

When it comes to apportioning blame, people like Liaconn and others are well down the list.
 
sunny said:
i think people are losing sight of a few things. We are not in this mess because people decided to buy overpriced property. We are in this mess because we had a government that decided to base a large percentage of our spending on tax revenue obtained from one sector of the economy. We are in this mess because instead of taking steps to cool an overheating economy, we shoved mccreevy off to brussels and continued to offer huge tax breaks for property related items and lowered other taxes. We are in this mess because there was a huge amount of cheap liquidity within the financial system and banks were desperate to do deals. We are in this mess because of incompetent bankers. We are in this mess because those banks were not regulated properly by the people who were supposed to be doing it. We are in this mess because someone like sean quinn decided he wanted to get rich without any consideration for anything other than his own wealth. We are in this mess because of the world financial crisis. We are in this mess because we allowed banks become too big to fail and losses had to be bourne by the taxpayer. Could go on and on and on.....

When it comes to apportioning blame, people like liaconn and others are well down the list.
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+1
 
Purple said:
I don't know if the distinction is massive. I moved in 2004 from a 4 bed semi to a larger 4 bed detached house and more than doubled the size of my mortgage. We moved because the family was getting bigger but we could have stayed where we were and have almost no mortgage now. Nobody forced us to move and we did so knowing that we were in the middle of a bubble and knowing that prices would drop so we did so for quality of life, not financial gain. If things go bad for us and we end up with no house then that's our own fault, not the banks or the government.
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Fair enough if the bank didn't give you a mortgage of six or seven times your income, or insisted on you taking a three year fixed rate because you wouldn't have passed the variable rate stress test, or give you a 100% mortgage, or give you an interest only mortgage for the first five years or longer. I have no problem with your argument where the bank lent responsibly but I have a major problem with reckless lending overseen by an incompetent regulator , central bank and government.
 
Purple said:
I don't know if the distinction is massive. I moved in 2004 from a 4 bed semi to a larger 4 bed detached house and more than doubled the size of my mortgage. We moved because the family was getting bigger but we could have stayed where we were and have almost no mortgage now. Nobody forced us to move and we did so knowing that we were in the middle of a bubble and knowing that prices would drop so we did so for quality of life, not financial gain. If things go bad for us and we end up with no house then that's our own fault, not the banks or the government.
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But I'm talking about people who had no house at all and were unwilling to rent for the rest of their lives in a country where renters have very little rights. For most people there is actually a relatively small window in life when you can get a mortgage. You have to be old enough to be earning a reasonable salary, have a deposit saved up and a track record of saving that will keep the bank happy; while being young enough to be able to get a mortgage that you can pay off over 20-25 years. For a lot of people they would only enter that window at about 30 yrs of age and, before they know it, 40 is approaching and they need to get on the ladder.

Also, people didn't know, and certainly weren't informed, that property prices would go down. We were lead to believe they would keep going up for a time and then stabilise.
 
It just goes to show that the Irish people are not fit to govern themselves.
 
blueband said:
something that has not gone unnoticed by our EU overlords as they turn the screw on us!
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Nice soundbite but not exactly true is it? Would you prefer to be in Greece? What have they achieved through their love of protesting?
 
Time said:
It just goes to show that the Irish people are not fit to govern themselves.
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Perhaps the Irish have become too malleable but our current self-financing party political system is effectively a closed-shop, it requires a reset.
Sunny said:
Would you prefer to be in Greece? What have they achieved through their love of protesting?
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Some might say they've achieved a 70% haircut.
 
liaconn said:
Also, people didn't know, and certainly weren't informed, that property prices would go down. We were lead to believe they would keep going up for a time and then stabilise.
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While I sympathise with your plight, and understand your perspective, I have to say that this particular statement unfortunately undermines your entire argument.
 
Of course people knew that property price falls were at least a possibility. There were countless shills and snake-oil 'experts' who said that prices would rise for ever and ever, but also plenty of mainstream commentators who urged caution, not least in media like AAM but also in the leading newspapers, and radio and tv programmes.
 
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