Heating Headache New Build

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krissovo

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I am starting a new build and my head is about to explode with how am I going to heat the place. I need real advice of a tried and tested solution that will not cost 50k to fit and have high running costs.

The build and HRV
My home will be 2550 sqft and is going to be constructed from ICF so it should be airtight and well insulated. One area that is a no brainier is that I am putting in HRV but the quotes coming back to me are all in the region of €7.5k with a few at €10k + so my first question is can I get it for cheaper? I used to live in Germany and I know its around €3 to €4k to fit there.

Heating
For the past 6 months I have been investigating heating and I have swayed from Wood pellet to geo to heat pumps etc. Again the prices are over inflated and margins from some of these companies must be 200% or so. I am now of the opinion that renewable energies are not worth the investment just yet so I am thinking of just going with oil for a price of €3k for install and look in 5 years time to replace this with a well tried system.

Passive is the way forward but there is no such thing as a true passive house, its a pipe dream as there will be some form of heating unless you live in the desert but my home should be cheap to heat as we are innvesting alot in insulation and decent windows and have a build that should have a great solar gain.

Questions:

  • Heat pumps - Does anyone have any real data on the running costs of these for both geo and air source? I keep hearing horror stories that electricity bills are double with these (wood pellet boiler salesmen) but I also hear some of them use next to nothing (heat pump salesmen). The quotes I have for these are around €12k for heating only, this price is crazy!! Any better quotes out there? Can a system provide hot water as well?
  • Woodpellet - Are these a worth while investment just now? Again air pump salesmen state they are useless and running costs are higher than heat pumps.
  • Solar - The cost IMO is far to high again in Germany I can get a decent system for half the Irish price but I could not trust an Irish company to fit a German system. Any one have a good working system bought from Ireland at a realistic price (remember new builds do not get grants)?
  • Indipendant Consultants - These are joke and will only try and get you to buy a system endorsed by them with a huge markup. Is there a true indipant energy consultant?
  • A good system - Can anyone recomend a complete system that is not expensive to fit and has reasonable running costs?
Can anyone help before I lose my marbles completely. Is there a company out there that will not rip me off?
 
Krissovo,

I understand exactly what you are looking for.I had the same issues when I started my own build in 2006.I have not installed any of the renewable energy systems as you are correct the prices are inflated.
The only assistance I can give you is that I went for oil as it was part of the plumber's quote.The burner is located beside the garage and I ran the 4'' pre-insulated flow and return pipe into the house (expensive pipe but worth it).I have left an opening in the garage floor that if I ever find a wood pellet burner that WORKS and is a fair price then I will go for it.
Alternatively I have ample space in the back garden to put in geothermal if at some future date I decide to go with ufh - over 2/3 of house is currently on suspended floor therefore can be up-dated in future.

Personally I think the renewable energy installers that are still around in 18 months know what they are on about and probaly have a product that works.The rest will be proven to have been chancers.
 
Krissovo,

Whats happened the blog updates? I used love looking at them
 
rmdt said:
Krissovo,

Whats happened the blog updates? I used love looking at them
Click to expand...

The bank moved the goal posts on us with the current financial climate so the money ran out. Its back on track again so will be getting updated soon.
 
Hi Krissovo,

I went for geothermal and UFH in my new build, house is 3200 sq foot..the net cost was 15K, payback within 7 years based on current oil usage. It will be up and running in the next month and i will get back to you if you are interested on the running costs
 
i myself having similer problem trying to figure it all out for a new buid of 4000 sq ft ,if using heatpump can u still heat water from solid fuel stove or immersionand why use the 4 inch pipes
 
damienfitzp,

The 3/4 inch flow and return from your boiler are basically encassed in a 4 inch duct which is filled with insulation.It reduces heat loss as the heated water travels from your boiler to your house - nothing worse than heating the ground.
 
johnnyg said:
Hi Krissovo,

I went for geothermal and UFH in my new build, house is 3200 sq foot..the net cost was 15K, payback within 7 years based on current oil usage. It will be up and running in the next month and i will get back to you if you are interested on the running costs
Click to expand...

That would be great if you could feedback.
 
thanks wexford dude

im still thinking about heatpump and ufh at the min but by problem is do you have to use it to do all your water heating aswell , or can you use stove , solar etc.

also can anyone recommend a good company for heatpumps etc has anyone any experiences with energymaster

thanks
damien
 
damienfitzp said:
thanks wexford dude

im still thinking about heatpump and ufh at the min but by problem is do you have to use it to do all your water heating aswell , or can you use stove , solar etc.
Click to expand...

From the companies that has quoted me there is separate system for hot water and a couple of them have offered to sell me another combined heat pump boiler system for 3 or 4 k.

Its mad I tell ye!
 
Krissovo

I am starting a new build and looking at ICF as an option, who did you use and is it as good as they make out and how up to date was your Architect with it.

With regards to the GSHP, we have friends that have installed it and also a wind turbine and they are impressed with its efficiency and running costs compared to what they had before. They had gas central heating in an old farmhouse and their bills are a 1/4 the gas ones.

I am looking to build 3500 to 4000 sqft in Glounthaune in Cork so any info greatly appreciated as all the fees for Architects etc seem to have doubled in the past 6 months since I first contacted them.

Cheers


Charlie
 
Firstly lads, if you want a cheaper way of heating your homes / house, I propose you build smaller ones.

When in Germany, where the quote for 400 - 500m2 house, doubt it. Compare apples with apples.

My wife and I will be building a home in the next year and have two children (we may have one more). The biggest we will be going 2000 sq ft, cheaper to build, cheaper to heat.

Joejoe
 
CharlieR said:
Krissovo

I am starting a new build and looking at ICF as an option, who did you use and is it as good as they make out and how up to date was your Architect with it.
Click to expand...

We are going to go with the Reward ICF system, mostly due to the builder we are using as that is the system that he likes to work with and the performance is good. We visited a few home that he built with this system and they are stunning.

As for an architect, well to cut a long story short we sacked our architect very early on so now I am just using an engineer. Anyway the engineer is happy to work with the ICF even though he does not have much experience with it.
 
joejoe said:
Firstly lads, if you want a cheaper way of heating your homes / house, I propose you build smaller ones.

When in Germany, where the quote for 400 - 500m2 house, doubt it. Compare apples with apples.
Click to expand...

My home is 2550 sqft, homes in Germany are generally much larger than Irish homes so 250m2 + is fairly common. So I am comparing apples with apples.

As for building smaller I do not agree entirely, my build will be airtight and very well insulated. The quotes are coming back with the primary heating device no bigger than if the home was 1100sqft.
 
We started our build a few years ago before there was as much info available about passive houses etc. We put in geothermal and are very happy so far. We have had three ESB bill so far varying from €140-€225. We also use the tumble dryer and washing machine nearly every day. The geo also heats the water, which is really great.

If I had the option again though I would have increased the insulation to passive standards given the changes that are coming over the next few years and made that a priority over a geo system.
 
joejoe said:
Firstly lads, if you want a cheaper way of heating your homes / house, I propose you build smaller ones.

When in Germany, where the quote for 400 - 500m2 house, doubt it. Compare apples with apples.
Click to expand...

Good post joejoe, thoroughly agree.

Also, one of the reasons HRV/solar/heat pumps are so expensive is that the technology is relatively new to this country compared to its roll out in Europe. As fitters become more accustomed to the technology and economies of scale for suppliers prices will fall..
 
krissovo said:
My home is 2550 sqft, homes in Germany are generally much larger than Irish homes so 250m2 + is fairly common. So I am comparing apples with apples.

As for building smaller I do not agree entirely, my build will be airtight and very well insulated. The quotes are coming back with the primary heating device no bigger than if the home was 1100sqft.
Click to expand...

We are talking about new buildings not old ones. In Germany currently the average sized new family house 125m2 or 1,345 sq ft. Building costs in Germany are on a par with Ireland.

Joejoe
 
If going with Reward - just have your engineer pay particular attention to the detail around the reveals. Unless they've changed it, they used to shutter the reveals with timber. It needs to be waterproofed effectively. Otherwise Reward is a good system. Also need to ensure the walls are dead straight otherwise the external rendering will look really bad. It is difficult to rectify/striaghten with the type of render that is applied to ICF.

One of the most 'reasonably' priced HRV systems I came across when researching was from RVR ..if I recall. I didn't put it in though in the end (budget went through the roof - so some items went out the window!).
 
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ninsaga said:
If going with Reward - just have your engineer pay particular attention to the detail around the reveals. Unless they've changed it, they used to shutter the reveals with timber. It needs to be waterproofed effectively. Otherwise Reward is a good system. Also need to ensure the walls are dead straight otherwise the external rendering will look really bad. It is difficult to rectify/striaghten with the type of render that is applied to ICF.

One of the most 'reasonably' priced HRV systems I came across when researching was from RVR ..if I recall. I didn't put it in though in the end (budget went through the roof - so some items went out the window!).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips, RVR looks a great site and the prices are even better!
 
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