Greenan Open Fund investment

A

AntoCOD

Registered User
Messages
4
Hi,

I've recently changed job and had to do something with my pension from my previous company. I wanted something not very risky and my financial advisor recommended putting it all into the Greenman open fund j series.
I've no knowledge of investments so am very much been guided by him on this.
However I'm nervous especially due to covid-19 as it's a fund interesting in retail in Germany. And also as it's all my eggs in one basket as it were.

Has anyone any advice?

Thanks,
Anto
 
The Greenman Open fund is a good fund but I wouldn't recommend that anyone puts their entire pension fund into any single asset class, e.g. property in this case. I'm assuming that your financial advisor is recommending that you invest in this fund via an Aviva policy. Aviva have other fund choices and you should be able to invest in the Greenman fund along with other funds offered by Aviva, within the one policy.
 
This is an appalling recommendation

i would strongly recommend seeking another adviser


Marc Westlake
Chartered Certified and European Financial Planner
www.globalwealth.ie
 
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AntoCOD said:
Hi,

I've recently changed job and had to do something with my pension from my previous company. I wanted something not very risky and my financial advisor recommended putting it all into the Greenman open fund j series.
I've no knowledge of investments so am very much been guided by him on this.
However I'm nervous especially due to covid-19 as it's a fund interesting in retail in Germany. And also as it's all my eggs in one basket as it were.

Has anyone any advice?

Thanks,
Anto
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Your “financial advisor”, and I use the term in the loosest possible sense, is a scoundrel.

That is an appalling recommendation that should be reported to the Central Bank.

Ask this “advisor” for a detailed breakdown of all commission payable to him/her in respect of this “investment”.

Incredible; scum of the earth stuff. People like that should be driven out of financial services.

The worrying thing is the number of people who don’t come to a site like AAM and get pointed in the right direction. Shocking.
 
Marc said:
This is an appalling recommendation

i would strongly recommend seeking another adviser
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Thanks Marc. This advisor was recommended to me. What is the best way to source a different one? It's hard to know to be honest.
Anto
 
LDFerguson said:
The Greenman Open fund is a good fund but I wouldn't recommend that anyone puts their entire pension fund into any single asset class, e.g. property in this case. I'm assuming that your financial advisor is recommending that you invest in this fund via an Aviva policy. Aviva have other fund choices and you should be able to invest in the Greenman fund along with other funds offered by Aviva, within the one policy.
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Thanks, I'll do that as a first step.
Anto
 
Whatever about the fund (not something I recommend so I don't read up on where the properties are invested), you need to know the way this product is priced. I seriously think it should be looked at.

You set up your pension with Aviva. The broker can get paid a commission by Aviva for this.
But now Aviva have created this self directed option using Cantor Fitzgerald, where you can go off and invest in other funds and products. The likes of Greenman, Blackbee and other structured products are available through this self directed option so the advisor gets paid a second commission for selling these products too.

of course, Brokers can do this too through the regular self administered pension structures but the charges are a bit more transparent under these schemes.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
It all depends on the risk profile of @AntoCOD. There are funds with all the pension providers within the range of lowest risk to highest risk possible.

If he is conservative but still want a decent growth on the investments, a mix between risk 3 & 4 funds would be the ideal choice for a longer term. Exposure in gold could be taken as a diversification tool ( Gold fund only available by Aviva & Zurich).

The fund performance of all the funds in the Irish market based on various risk levels can be viewed at http://funds.irishtimes.com/
 
Dave Vanian said:
@Marc @Gordon Gekko @SBarrett

You've all given a thumbs down to the original advice.

Have any of you got any comments to make about the fund itself?

What do you think should @AntoCOD do instead?
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SBarrett said:
Whatever about the fund (not something I recommend so I don't read up on where the properties are invested),
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I have absolutely no idea where the OP should invest their money. I don't know who they are, what their circumstances are, what their attitude to investment risk is, what they need, what other assets they have. It is impossible to recommend (and professionally negligent) an investment strategy without at least getting some information from the poster first.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
Investment Under consideration: Greenman Open Fund



ISSUER: Greenman Investments SCA

SEDOL: BKMDZ78

ISIN: LU2074594297

Legal Structure SICAV

Domicile Luxembourg



Diversification


When constructing a portfolio, investors are seeking to take advantage of the non-correlation between different asset classes to reduce portfolio volatility and risk profile. In a multi-asset class portfolio, the differing risk reward parameters of cash, fixed interest securities, property and equities have long been used to provide superior risk adjusted returns.

Because of this, our due diligence process is constantly on the lookout for new opportunities for investment which are uncorrelated with other asset classes.


What is Greenman Open Fund


An alternative Investment Fund (AIF) promoted by an Irish company, predominantly via Friends First Self-directed Pensions investing in German “Strip-mall style” retail parks predominantly in food retail.


Is it a unique investment option?

No, because other commercial property vehicles exist, it is necessary to compare this with the alternatives in order to assess which is the best investment option.


Limitations


Gearing – the fund borrows to invest which has the effect of increasing the investment risk and therefore potential gains and losses for investors

Charges – in global terms this is a relatively small fund and therefore has higher charges than comparable alternatives

Diversification – The fund only invests in Germany where our preference is to invest globally

Daily priced – no, the fund is quarterly priced and has lockins



Risk Warnings


Liquidity risk

Investments in the fund should be considered illiquid.

The fund intends to use a substantial portion of the funds to purchase direct property investments with gearing

Such an investment is essentially illiquid. Therefore the fund may not have access to liquid assets to make any payment to shareholders unless additional subscriptions can be attracted or a property sold.

Accordingly, delays may occur in redemption payments. In order to increase the funds liquidity, the Manager will seek to hold “adequate” cash to match redemptions which will result in “cash drag” reducing performance potential


Investment risk

It should be remembered that the price of the Shares and the income (if any) from them can go down as well as up and that, on the redemption of their Shares, investors may not receive the amount that they originally invested. The volatility in the value of investments may be reduced by investing as part of a diversified portfolio with adequate liquidity.

The return on the investment will be dependent in large part upon the ability and expertise of the investment Adviser to source and price the investments. The pricing of a property is dependent upon the quarterly valuations provided by the valuer and these are a matter of opinion until a property is sold.

Opinion

Given the availability of lower cost, larger, more liquid and more globally diversified commercial property investments we see no reason to favour this fund over the alternatives.

www.globalwealth.ie
 
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Dave Vanian said:
@Marc @Gordon Gekko @SBarrett

You've all given a thumbs down to the original advice.

Have any of you got any comments to make about the fund itself?

What do you think should @AntoCOD do instead?
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Somewhat analagous to suggesting that someone doesn’t shoot themselves in the face only to be asked “well what would you do differently?”

Well I wouldn’t shoot myself in the face, i.e. be hoodwinked by a crooked broker for starters.

I’d go and talk to someone reputable, e.g. Steven who’s namechecked above.
 
@Gordon Gekko I don't know the original poster or his broker, but I'm a bit surprised by your responses to this, to be honest. Steven has pointed out the possibility that a broker could be paid by both Greenman and Aviva for putting someone in this fund. A broker can also choose to be paid by only one, e.g. to reinvest commission from Aviva and take commission from Greenman.

Every single one of the pension companies that distribute through brokers - Irish Life, Zurich Life, Aviva, Standard Life, New Ireland - offer a choice of charging structures on every single pension product. If a broker wants to take obscene loads of commission, s/he can, to the detriment of the client. The reason that so many possible charging structures exist is that many brokers choose to offer a better deal to their client with a view to forging a long-term relationship, rather than gouging every single client for every cent commission they can earn. That's why the good charging structures exist at all. Because of demand for them.

Why do you assume that the OP's broker is a "scoundrel" and a "crooked broker" engaging in "scum of the earth stuff"?

If the OP had said that the broker was double-dipping on commissions, or had given enough information in the first post to enable us to conclude that he had been recommended a fund that was contrary to his needs or wants and the information provided in the fact-finding, then I'd agree with you. Bad brokers do no favours to anyone in the industry. But there's not enough information in the posts to conclude this.
 
Dave Vanian said:
Have any of you got any comments to make about the fund itself?
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On a quick scan, it's difficult to find an up to date prospectus for the fund - hard to give comments. It's not on their website and anything I can find is from the initial offering.
 
Perhaps the OP can clarify if this pension from his previous company represents 100% of his total pension assets, what those assets are currently invested in and also if they could provide their age range? The OP's comment "it's all my eggs in one basket" would suggest that the proposed Greenman investment would represent 100% of the pension assets. If this is the case, I think that most readers of this thread would rightly conclude that the proposed recommendation is dubious and rightly questioned the motives of the adviser. Compensation incentives may have influenced the advice but more info is needed.
 
LDFerguson said:
@Gordon Gekko I don't know the original poster or his broker, but I'm a bit surprised by your responses to this, to be honest. Steven has pointed out the possibility that a broker could be paid by both Greenman and Aviva for putting someone in this fund. A broker can also choose to be paid by only one, e.g. to reinvest commission from Aviva and take commission from Greenman.

Every single one of the pension companies that distribute through brokers - Irish Life, Zurich Life, Aviva, Standard Life, New Ireland - offer a choice of charging structures on every single pension product. If a broker wants to take obscene loads of commission, s/he can, to the detriment of the client. The reason that so many possible charging structures exist is that many brokers choose to offer a better deal to their client with a view to forging a long-term relationship, rather than gouging every single client for every cent commission they can earn. That's why the good charging structures exist at all. Because of demand for them.

Why do you assume that the OP's broker is a "scoundrel" and a "crooked broker" engaging in "scum of the earth stuff"?

If the OP had said that the broker was double-dipping on commissions, or had given enough information in the first post to enable us to conclude that he had been recommended a fund that was contrary to his needs or wants and the information provided in the fact-finding, then I'd agree with you. Bad brokers do no favours to anyone in the industry. But there's not enough information in the posts to conclude this.
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Punter wants a low risk investment and gets ‘Greenman’, a leveraged German commercial property fund that happens to pay big juicy commissions.

All of it!

I stand by my comments.
 
Thanks all for your comments, I appreciate them.
I think I need to have a proper look into what I've done with this investment and not just go with what the advisor has invested for me.

I know I should have questioned alot more but to be honest I just trusted him as a qualified professional with expertise in this field.

Anto
 
LDFerguson said:
Irish Life, Zurich Life, Aviva, Standard Life and New Ireland also pay "big juicy commissions". What are your thoughts on these companies and any brokers that advise people to invest with them?
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Liam, with respect, I think that you’re missing the point.

Upfront or trail commissions are okay if they’re properly disclosed to the client and if the investment solution proposed is appropriate.

But on what planet is the following okay:

“Hello Mr Broker, I’d like something that’s ‘not very risky’ for my pension fund; just to let you know, I’ve no knowledge of investments.”

“No, problem, I have this leveraged German property fund that’s quite remunerative for me; you should put it all in that.”

All of it. Into the Greenman leveraged property fund. German retail property. All of it. Yes, all of it.
 
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AntoCOD said:
I just trusted him as a qualified professional with expertise in this field
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That was your big mistake. Of course there are good brokers out there. Steven and Liam, for example, based on their posting history.

However, and this is merely my own view, most are as dishonest as they are stupid. Chancers and charlatans out to rape and pillage and fill their boots insofar as they can. The world of the financial broker is a swamp in which clients must tread very carefully.
 
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