Greece ... Thank You

Guardian...

"Yanis Varoufakis says he'll resign if Greece votes Yes - live updates"

Aww...I think I would miss him actually. It just wouldn't be the same without Evel Knievel!
 
heard that they destroyed their drachma printing presses couple of years ago ,so what will they do then, how quick could they have a new currency up and running ,would they keep printing and using greek euro notes
 
Greek polls just closed. Betfair go 6/1 against a Yes - which is a dramatic change from this morning. So folks, looks like it will be NO. How does Betfair know these things?
 
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I see Fierce Doherty and Paul Murphy are at Syriza HQ to celebrate. Hope they forgot to bring enough euro to get them home;)
 
According to the Guardian - live updates - the No voters are already celebrating.

Official projection: No side to win by 61%.

The Guardian is also predicting dramatic moves in tomorrow's financial markets as investors did not expect such a decisive win by the no side.
 
If this is true it's great for democracy. The democratically elected Goverment of Greece were forced to put the referendum to its people because the powers that be in the EU wouldn't deal with them, but have said behind the scenes they'll deal with a new Goverment. Greece will get a deal, huge debt will be written off, it was always going to happen, always, because it wouldn't have been paid. It was a no brainer, but so called economists at the highest level wanted it done their way. Now they've got their answer. Kenny had a cheek saying Ireland wouldn't back Greece, he had no mandate for his hugely stupid intervention. The headless chickens are in contact now, couldn't see beyond their own assessments of the situation and didn't read the signs. Silly, stupid, dictatorial fools.
The Greek people should stand up proudly tonight, they have been brutally treated, but not beaten. The jackboot has been seen for what it is. Now, if there are good brave people who are able to see the light for a new, proper Europe, now's the time for it to happen. No rocket science needed in order to see what needs to be done. Someone's got to get hurt, their pockets picked big time. It's called debt forgiveness, or write off, or tear it up, or forget about it, whatever? Then it starts. Now, get it on.
 
Hi noproblem

No one really knows what will happen.

They might well be standing proudly outside their closed banks and silent factories and empty tourist resorts, starving.

I would not like to be one of those pensioners who retired at 50 depending on the state to continue paying my pension or one of the large numbers of unemployed depending on state handouts.

Greece lived beyond its means for years on borrowed money. It was a mistake of the international lenders to give them that money. It would be a bigger mistake to give them any more now. Unfortunately the people have been fooled. They will learn the hard way that they can't insist that international lenders will continue to finance them living beyond their means.

The only long term solution for Greece is to live within its means. When it shows a commitment to doing that, then there will have to be debt write off. But there can't be debt write off just so that they can continue to live beyond their means.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi noproblem

No one really knows what will happen.

They might well be standing proudly outside their closed banks and silent factories and empty tourist resorts, starving.

I would not like to be one of those pensioners who retired at 50 depending on the state to continue paying my pension or one of the large numbers of unemployed depending on state handouts.

Greece lived beyond its means for years on borrowed money. It was a mistake of the international lenders to give them that money. It would be a bigger mistake to give them any more now. Unfortunately the people have been fooled. They will learn the hard way that they can't insist that international lenders will continue to finance them living beyond their means.

The only long term solution for Greece is to live within its means. When it shows a commitment to doing that, then there will have to be debt write off. But there can't be debt write off just so that they can continue to live beyond their means.

Brendan
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the story is much bigger than Greece and that countrys chronic tax avoidance culture , Greece is a link in the chain of the second most important economic zone in the world , this makes it impact much more important than the size of its economy would other wise suggest , I can see Washington being on the phone all night to merkel , telling her to plug the dam which is holding back leahmans mark 2

the greeks are in a much stronger position than yesterday , there is already a feeling amongst the European population that a severe democratic deficit exists amongst the so called elite institutions , if Greece is thrown to the wolves , European populations will become much more active politically , this evenings results is huge
 
I understand exactly what you're saying Brendan, but I also know that taking a few more bob from pensioners and ordinary working people was never going to solve anything apart from saving the ego's of the dictatorial ECB and their EU employers.The mistake with Greece was allowing them into the EU, they were welcomed to open arms although the powers that be and the dogs on the street knew the books were cooked, but by whom were they cooked? I know of no country in the civilised world that lives within its means, none. They live within the means of some invisible economists pumping out numbers, changing projections as fast as a 3 card trick pony, planning and plotting with bankers and industry heads in order to keep a certain regime in place. Goverments are then put in place to supposedly run these regimes for authenticity, it looks good, but is so false and now the Greeks have called their bluff. Lets see will the starvation and huge unemployment and poverty you talk about take hold now? I'd imagine Greece has more friends than European enemies. Politics and democracy have been put to shame recently by some elected and some not elected human beings. They and others have a chance of writing a new chapter, but are they capable of doing so? If they're not, it won't be money we'll all be worrying about and that's for sure. You can refuse talking to a Goverment even though it's democratically elected, but try not talking or refusing to talk to a country's citizens? That's what you call a problem and if gets to that, God or Allah, or whoever, help us all.
 
Crandle said:
Are we living in an historical moment in Europe ?

If Greece is cut free (writing this on 25/6/15), is this not the best opportunity for the E.U. and Eurozone to reassess everything. Combine this with the U.K.'s renegotiation of their relationship with the E.U.?
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If Greece leaves the Euro then eventually all members will leave because the markets will round on the bond yields of the southern countries and Ireland. The markets will believe the euro is reversible. The problems with the euro would need to be fixed to avoid breakup and I don't think there is the political will or public support for common tax, common fiscal authority and mutualised debt.
 
galway_blow_in said:
if Greece is thrown to the wolves ,
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The Greeks are throwing themselves to the wolves. They have been living so far beyond their means and have not taken tax collection seriously.

That is not the EU's fault, although it is the EU's fault that they were let into the Eurozone in the first place.

Brendan
 
Quote from the Guardian - live update

Caroline Lucas MP, who represents the British south coast constituency of Brighton Pavilion, says the eurozone must now accept that Greece needs debt relief:

“The Greek people have made a decision which must now be respected. This referendum has seen EU states do their very best to undermine the democratic will of the Greek people but it’s time to draw a line under the past and move onwards.

“History shows us that countries can escape crippling debt in a just way.

In 1953, at London Conference, Greece was among the European nations signing a deal which allowed for the cancellation of German debt, to enable the country to grow again after the destruction of the Second World War.

Europe needs to come together to offer the Greeks a deal which allows their country to be rebuilt.”
 
I think the Germans had the fundamentals right by 1953. Their economy was growing rapidly and they only had to repay their debts as long as they were running a trade surplus. The Greeks have none of that. Some commentator said recently that "they're collecting virtually no taxes to pay for a public sector that does virtually nothing" or similar.
 
Sorry, dunno, someone on radio in the background, I wasn't really paying attention.

As regards a German trade surplus. This is Germany we're talking about. Like death and taxes, a German trade surplus is inevitable.
 
rockofages said:
As regards a German trade surplus. This is Germany we're talking about. Like death and taxes, a German trade surplus is inevitable.
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What if in 1953, the Allies had taken the same view about debt repayment as the current German Chancellor?
 
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