Go Safe Camera: got photo but its impossible to determine whos driving.

Complainer said:
Well then, it's up to you two to sort it out between you. It's not up to the State to sort out your family confusion.
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+1 Complainer. I can't believe this thread made it to 2 pages as it's a pretty ridiculous scenario if someone clearly acknowledges it was either themself or their partner who was driving the car but that they expect the State to prove which of them it was before they will pay any fine. Most people want the State to have less interference in minutiae like this, whilst clearly the OP expects the State to decide every little detail for them.
 
Ceist Beag said:
+1 Complainer. I can't believe this thread made it to 2 pages as it's a pretty ridiculous scenario if someone clearly acknowledges it was either themself or their partner who was driving the car but that they expect the State to prove which of them it was before they will pay any fine. Most people want the State to have less interference in minutiae like this, whilst clearly the OP expects the State to decide every little detail for them.
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So we should just charge everyone and let them prove their innocence for all offences that they might have committed.

It is up to the Garda/State to prove beyond all reasonable doubt who committed an offence before sentencing them, from the information I have that they sent out and from what they said when I phoned for help they have no idea who was driving as they are unable to make it out from the photo of the front of car.

As I have free legal cover with my car breakdown I will let them sort it out.

Cheers
 
CharlieR said:
It is up to the Garda/State to prove beyond all reasonable doubt who committed an offence before sentencing them, from the information I have that they sent out and from what they said when I phoned for help they have no idea who was driving as they are unable to make it out from the photo of the front of car.
Cheers
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not true. law is perfectly clear - registered owner is responsible for persons driving their car and if they're not willing to nominate someone to take the penalty then by default they are accepting liability.

Same applies for rubbish thrown from a car, or for seat belt compliance for minors ....
 
CharlieR said:
It is up to the Garda/State to prove beyond all reasonable doubt who committed an offence before sentencing them.
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Not in this case it isn't. You should have a read of the legislation under the Irish Statute book, or the more easily digested Citizen's Information site. This legislation was drawn up specifically to deal with this situation. You, as owner of the car are legally obliged to identify the driver who comitted the offence. Where you are unable to do this, then you must take the consequences. Note it is a criminal offence not to identify the driver, and as ever, ignorance is not a valid defence.

CharlieR said:
As I have free legal cover with my car breakdown I will let them sort it out.
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You need to educate yourself on the T&Cs of this cover. They will laugh you off the phone if you call them asking them to sort this one out for you!
 
With a UK licence, the little plastic credit card sized one, you can drive on it until it expires. The licence to drive expires at 75 but the licence itself only lasts for ten years...probably because of the photo and it has an expiry date printed on it. When mine expired a couple of years ago I could have renewed it through a UK address but I chose to take an Irish one..when in Rome and all that.

Any points can't currently be added to your UK licence but if you exchange it for an Irish one, they'll be put on that if they're still active.

On another point though, if you DO get points, even if you don't have an Irish licence to put them on, you have to tell your insurance company.
 
Leo said:
You need to educate yourself on the T&Cs of this cover. They will laugh you off the phone if you call them asking them to sort this one out for you!
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Well I spoke to the solicitor today appointed by them and looks like we are on a trip to Cork Court so perhaps you should look at your policies and ensure that when you take one out it covers for all eventualities. I did as a number of years ago I needed cover for employment and from then on made sure I was adequately covered.

Correct you are responsible for your vehicle but as he stated cannot be held liable for the vehicle at all times and if you are unable to provide information relating to the driver at the time of the offence then you have your day to debate it.

He stated that the likely outcome is the Judge will look at the evidence, photo taken that shows nothing inside the front of the car, not award points as the driver cannot be identified and then ask for a donation to a charity and the cost of the fine.

I looked at the citizen information and can see no mention that the driver must take the points only that they must identify the driver.
 
Citizens information is not the law. The law perversely regards the RO as the driver unless someone else is named.
 
CharlieR said:
Well I spoke to the solicitor today appointed by them and looks like we are on a trip to Cork Court so perhaps you should look at your policies and ensure that when you take one out it covers for all eventualities. I did as a number of years ago I needed cover for employment and from then on made sure I was adequately covered.
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Please do let us know the date of the Court case. I'm sure some of us would like to come along to witness the show.
 
Its simple! The onus is on the registered owner of the vehicle to know at all times who is actually driving their vehicle whether its just maybe one other driver or twenty. Thats how the law sees it.
 
Can you point to a court case in which it was determined that this provision in Irish law is at odds with "EU law"? Whats "EU law"?
 
It is at odds because the owner cannot be held liable just because he does not know who is driving.

At worst the owner is guilty of with holding information. Without proof of who is driving he cannot be guilty of speeding. The European court of justice has ruled on this. is the case in point.
 
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nai said:
law is perfectly clear - registered owner is responsible for persons driving their car and if they're not willing to nominate someone to take the penalty then by default they are accepting liability.
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What if the vehecile is registered to a company?
Or in such a case is there still an individuals name associated?
 
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