Geothermal heating

Sorry just wondering for UFH where did you get your piping from? Their is QualPEX in Cork but anyone else?

Thanks
 
One of the guys I'm getting a quote from uses Unipipe, and I've gotten a brochure from Heatmasters for Rehau, both seem fairly reputable and both have websites. Don't take my word for it though, I'd ask the companies giving you quotes what they use and then see if you can source it yourself. I'm not brave enough to go down the DIY route myself!

I know that for about €200 odd, unipipe will do a complete computerised floor layout for you
 
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thefisherman said:
hi,am also putting in gshp in my new-build and am approved for grant.
will probably buy abroad as it is alot cheaper and will still get grant,(checked with sei).

irish suppliers are just charging above the odds for something that with a few internet clicks can be bought and shipped home and still save a few thousand euros .
i'm looking at the moment at a thermia heatpump ,10kw. from poland for under 6000 euro including shipping,
i installed the underfloor heating myself-all it is ,after all ,is laying piping in loops-no degree necessary.
the collector pipe in the garden is basically a jcb digging a narrow trench ,you lay the pipe, backfill, clap hands for job well done.
you still will need a plumber to connect the pipes to heatpump etc,
shopping around and doing your homework can save you alot of money,
oh-and a healty dose of common sense.
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I love it!! Have been looking at doing the same myself as I got a load of quotes and the heat pump alone is coming in at over €8.5k. Did the SEI advise on the conditions of the grant? I was under the impression the pump had to be on their registered list and installed by a registered installer. All this info needs to go on the grant form before you get the grant Letter of Offer from them - or so I thought?
 
yes the pump must be on the approved list but it does not matter where in the eu you buy it in order to get the grant as i checked.i did not buy pump yet as i am not at that stage of building(next month hopefully) but intend to buy a thermia diplomat with a output of 10 kw as recommended by the agent selling it in ireland,then went on the thermia home page and they will give a list of agents selling their pump anywhere from ireland to poland,then i made a lot of phone calls and can get this pump in poland for 5500 including polish vat of 22 per cent,of course i will have to get it to ireland and one transport company said it might cost 500 to bring it home but that sounds a bit pricy to me.i made these phone calls a few months ago so prices may haved changed but i will be buying one before end of jan. so will start phoning soon. and yes the installer must be approved and on the list so i phoned one in a nearby town,told him i was thinking of putting in a hp and could i use his name as installer and no problem,any way if i remember the form i got back after approval you can change the brand of pump and also the installer,the main thing is to apply for grant and take it from there
 
How is the amount of the SEI grant calculated - is it a fixed amount or a % of the heat pump cost??
 
JoeHooker said:
The Fisherman,

How did you calculate the power output that you would require for the heating of your home. The square meterage of your collector. I'd love to do a little project like that and will carry out as much of the work on my house as my competence lets me, being a Civil Engineer I'll be able to carry out alot of the engineering requirements but i'd still be slightly weary of doing something wrong, when it comes to plumbing and electrical work. Not installing properly or under designing the system could result in higher electricty costs & shorter maintenance periods.

On a different note i'm going to try to pay for my Geothermal/Underfloor heating with cash from savings, I think it's pointless tying the price of heating and water into the already climbing interest levels of a mortgage. It's cancelling out any savings that come from the Geothermal.

I've also inquired as to wheter the Geothermal can be incorporated in use with Solar panels, maybe using the energy from the panels to power the heat pump, however i've got not replies, anybody got any ideas?
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Joe, I was told that solar panels cannot power the HP as it needs more power than the solar can produce.

Good man Fisherman, fair play to you on that one. Hope the install works out.

It is recommended to have as tight a loop on the UFH as possible, it brings down the running temp of the UFH, our are about 25mm spacings and we are running @28 deg C, so that means less heat needed to warm the house, = less electricity.
 
Hi Yop,

Excuse my ignorance, but a tight loop, do you mean the shorter the pipe goes to the room and back to the heat pump the better?? Say for instance i have 6 zones downstairs, so straight to the room and back. Dont do 2/3 rooms with a loop (too long therefore longer to heat and more electricity to keep the heat level up?)
 
Thanks for that Fisherman, fair play to you. I see Dimplex and Hautec trade here also. Can you give me the link you used for the crowd in Poland if you dont mind?

Mickeyg - the grant depends on your collector and ranges from €4k. See this SEI link [broken link removed]
 
it was nordica.com.pl; you will find all this if you go on www .thermia.com and they are others like nibe who have distributors in poland,check all the approved pumps websites and start phoning.
 
Kildarebuild, sorry I should have explain, the gap in the middle between the 2 loops of piping, the gap in the U so to speak.
Generally the loop gaps are about 40/50mm. This mean less heat coverage so a higher temperature to run the water in the pipes to get you 20/21 degree room temp.
We were advised to get the gap down to 25mm spacing to reduce the running temperature, which is now 28deg average.
This is harder to install as kinks in the pipe are a possibility.
 
Yop,

I think your wrong there, 40 to 50 mm centres for the looping of the pipes seems a bit tight, and you said your going to try and get it to 25mm. That cant be, i've recently been quoted for underfloor heating and calculating sq area versus length of piping required, the clear spacing between pipes comes to be 150mm, id say you could tighten that to 100mm. But 40 to 50 seems a bit much you'd have to install atleast 400m of piping in a normal sized living room at that spacing.

Does anyone know what size heat pump you woul require to heat and hot water for a 2300 sq ft one and a half storey. Two quotes different size pump, one 15kW the other 9kW?
 
Hi guys,

we have a 10KW GSHP used in conjunction with UFH for a 2800 sqft dormer. Since we were not given any operating manuals we've had to stumble along this past year trying to see what works, since October until this week we were only running it on the night rate and for a few hours in the afternoon, I am trying with it on 24/7 at the momen. To be honest with you the heat iproduced in the house is rather poor with most rooms not heating up to any noticable degree, those closest to the manifolds seem to be "ok" but those further afield are freezing. I was wondering if anyone might tell me what we're doing wrong? For example, should the heat pump be on ALL the time? Is there a particular optimum pressure that the system operates at? It seems to me, to be honest with you, that the system only heats up when the ground loop collector is activated, ie the lights blink and the manifolds heat up, .. when the ground loop is off, the pump is pumping very lukewarm, at best, water around.

Any advice welcome,

ALERT.
 
Based on my research so far on geothermal, it is meant to be on the whole time, not only this saves on ESB bills, (starting it up turning it off requires the bulk of electricity - please correct me if i am wrong) Not surprised that the rooms closest to the manifold are the warmest while further rooms are colder. Maybe this is because the heat in the water is required to be at a higher temp to warm up these rooms. The heat pump might not be on long enough to achieve this temperature?

Let me know what heat pump you are using and where you got your underfloor piping. Also what is the space of your u loop in the piping?

Thanks
 
JoeHooker said:
Yop,

I think your wrong there, 40 to 50 mm centres for the looping of the pipes seems a bit tight, and you said your going to try and get it to 25mm. That cant be, i've recently been quoted for underfloor heating and calculating sq area versus length of piping required, the clear spacing between pipes comes to be 150mm, id say you could tighten that to 100mm. But 40 to 50 seems a bit much you'd have to install atleast 400m of piping in a normal sized living room at that spacing.

Does anyone know what size heat pump you woul require to heat and hot water for a 2300 sq ft one and a half storey. Two quotes different size pump, one 15kW the other 9kW?
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Joe, I have it installed, I did it myself and they're 25mm loops, it is very tight to get them light that but as I said it lowers the running temp of the circulating water while keeping the rooms at the correct temp.
 
alert said:
Hi guys,

those closest to the manifolds seem to be "ok" but those further afield are freezing. I was wondering if anyone might tell me what we're doing wrong?
ALERT.
Click to expand...

It might be that your manifold is not "balanced". Each loop on the flow of the manifold will have a dial of some description that opens and closes, which restricts the flow to a more or lesser degree.

There is a key post on this site where Heinbloed explains in detail how you balance a manifold, put simply though the longest loop of coil should have its restrictor open the most all the way down to the shortest loop being closed the most. The goal is to get the same temperature on the return side of each loop. (read the key post!!)
 
Hi KildareBuild,

thanks for that I will leave it on some more to see if that's why it's not working properly, although I suspect it won't make much difference.

I'm not sure that a rooms distance from the manifold should make so much of a difference to the temperature of said room, especially if the system is properly "balanced", ie rooms further away have more flow allowed to them, those closest less, it's only a house we're talking differences of a few meters.

I got the heatpump and underfloor piping from the people who installed it, (If you don't mind I'll not give you their name until they've "fixed" my system), and have no idea of the "U loop" spacing, what I will say is that the length of the piping had a large bearing on the price.

ALERT.
 
alert said:
Hi guys,

To be honest with you the heat iproduced in the house is rather poor with most rooms not heating up to any noticable degree, those closest to the manifolds seem to be "ok" but those further afield are freezing.
Any advice welcome,

ALERT.
Click to expand...

Did you get the pipes tested before the floor was laid. Is there a chance that the loop in broken in some place?
 
Lakeview said:
It might be that your manifold is not "balanced". Each loop on the flow of the manifold will have a dial of some description that opens and closes, which restricts the flow to a more or lesser degree.

There is a key post on this site where Heinbloed explains in detail how you balance a manifold, put simply though the longest loop of coil should have its restrictor open the most all the way down to the shortest loop being closed the most. The goal is to get the same temperature on the return side of each loop. (read the key post!!)
Click to expand...

Hi LakeView,

I'm afraid that the system has already been "Balanced", .. this was done in the summertime when the systems flaws were not so apparant :( The longest coil is consantly open, even it's solenoid can't close it.

No, I suspect that some muppet plumbed the storage tank backwards and I'm suffering for their ineptitude.

ALERT.
 
ludermor said:
Did you get the pipes tested before the floor was laid. Is there a chance that the loop in broken in some place?
Click to expand...

I believe that the pipes were pressure tested, I'm afraid I was out of the country when they were laid. However, I don't suspect a leak or the pressure in the system would have dropped significantly and it hasn't. If it were only 1 room which was freezing I'd be suspicious of a break, .. however nearly all seems unlikely.
 
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