Gardai fining cyclists on N11?

[AlbacoreA]

Personally I wouldn't cycle on the N11. but the point is the rules and laws are in place its just the enforcement which is lacking. But its legal to cycle on the N11.

BTW - the N11 isn't a motorway and the off ramps are 80kph. 8 or 10 cyclists aren't going to block an exit for more than 20~30 secs. So unless drivers are not paying attention, and/or left it too late to overtake or speeding, I don't see why they'd need to come to complete stop and be unable to read the road ahead to predict the path of cyclists. What if had been a farm vehicle, would drivers be unable to deal with that?

 

[MrEarl]

It's long past time that the Gardai took action, against bad cyclists ...

I see cyclists doing a lot of dangerous things on a very regular basis and see absolutely no reason why they should be permitted to:

- go out at night, without the correct safety lights on both front and rear of their bikes

- cycle on footpaths, often where there are people walking

- break traffic lights

- cycle the wrong way down a one way street (just watch what happens between the Luas line at St Stephens Green and Grafton Street any weekday morning, if you want numerous examples of this)

... my list could go on.


Perhaps it's time they introduce a Bicycle Licence, to permit cyclists go on the roads (at the very least, during night time and peak ours) ? ..... obviously, this would be granted, after the cyclists passes a test, has done lessons and could also bring in a little much needed revenue, for the State.

Regards

Mr. Earl.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Driver do lots of dangerous things too. The accident statistics back this up.

They should bring out laws for bad cyclists and drivers....oh wait...

 

[AlbacoreA]

...Perhaps it's time they introduce a Bicycle Licence, to permit cyclists go on the roads (at the very least, during night time and peak ours) ? ..... obviously, this would be granted, after the cyclists passes a test, has done lessons and could also bring in a little much needed revenue, for the State....

Considering there are existing laws not being enforced. What would be the point of new laws that won't be enforced.

 

[Complainer]

Tell that to the hobby cyclists who cycle on the M11 motorway and on the N11 dual-carriageway!

About a month ago I witnessed a near pile-up on the N11 near Enniskerry where about 8 or 10 hobby cyclists who were cycling on the hard shoulder behind one another proceeded to cross and completely block the mouth of the exit ramp in order to continue straight on the dual-carriageway while a number of cars were attempting to exit the N11 at this off-ramp travelling at close to 100kph.

The cars had to come to a complete standstill in the left lane causing other motorists behind them to brake hard and move into the right lane causing motorists in that lane to also brake hard to avoid a collision.

It was incredible that an accident was avoilded.

Am I missing something here? The cyclists were on the hard shoulder of the main road, and you seemed to expect them to stop for traffic joining the main road? Unless something has changed in traffic law, traffic joining any road gives way to traffic already on that road.

I run on cycle paths regularly, and I have never, ever, ever encountered a cyclist on the cyclepath so I don't get too concerned. If I ever do, I will sure to get out of the way.

Do you have mirrors when you're running so you can get out of the way of the cyclists coming behind you? Stay off the cycle path please.

It's long past time that the Gardai took action, against bad cyclists ...

I see cyclists doing a lot of dangerous things on a very regular basis and see absolutely no reason why they should be permitted to:

- go out at night, without the correct safety lights on both front and rear of their bikes

- cycle on footpaths, often where there are people walking

- break traffic lights

- cycle the wrong way down a one way street (just watch what happens between the Luas line at St Stephens Green and Grafton Street any weekday morning, if you want numerous examples of this)

... my list could go on.


Perhaps it's time they introduce a Bicycle Licence, to permit cyclists go on the roads (at the very least, during night time and peak ours) ? ..... obviously, this would be granted, after the cyclists passes a test, has done lessons and could also bring in a little much needed revenue, for the State.

Regards

Mr. Earl.

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it. I understand your frustration on some of these points, but really, you don't want to make things more difficult for cyclists. The more people that cycle, the less people that drive. The less people that drive, the quicker you get home. If you make things difficult for cyclists, many of them will get back in their cars instead, and will be holding you up in traffic. But when they are on their bikes, you'll generally get past them in a second or two.

I share your concern on some of things you list. I hate to see cyclists on the footpath around pedestrians, and I'll often take action to deter this when I'm on foot, like waving my arms windmill-like, or asking them if they are 8 years old. I hate to see cyclists breezing through lights and endangering themselves and other traffic. But other times, it really isn't a huge problem when cyclists turn left on a red light. Some more enlightened cities like Paris have made this legal, and turning right on red is legal for cars and bikes in much of the US.

Don't get annoyed just because cyclists are getting home quicker than you. If there are safety issues, then yes, let's enforce the existing laws. And let's find ways to encourage more cycling. 30% of teenage girls are obese, according to last week's release from the Growing Up in Ireland survey. Less car journeys, more bike journeys.

 

[delgirl]

Am I missing something here? The cyclists were on the hard shoulder of the main road, and you seemed to expect them to stop for traffic joining the main road? Unless something has changed in traffic law, traffic joining any road gives way to traffic already on that road.

The cyclists were on the hard shoulder of the dual carriageway which breaks when there's an exit ramp.

They had to cross the mouth of the exit lane to go straight ahead on the carriageway and as they were travelling at a much lower speed than the traffic on the dual carriageway and were spread out in ones, twos and threes, the traffic trying to get off the dual carriageway had to stop as they were unable to enter the exit ramp.

The traffic was quite heavy on this particular day, it caused chaos at the off ramp and I just think it's very dangerous to allow cyclists to cycle on dual carriageways, both for themselves and motorists.

 

[MrEarl]

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it. I understand your frustration on some of these points, but really, you don't want to make things more difficult for cyclists. The more people that cycle, the less people that drive. The less people that drive, the quicker you get home. If you make things difficult for cyclists, many of them will get back in their cars instead, and will be holding you up in traffic. But when they are on their bikes, you'll generally get past them in a second or two.

I share your concern on some of things you list. I hate to see cyclists on the footpath around pedestrians, and I'll often take action to deter this when I'm on foot, like waving my arms windmill-like, or asking them if they are 8 years old. I hate to see cyclists breezing through lights and endangering themselves and other traffic. But other times, it really isn't a huge problem when cyclists turn left on a red light. Some more enlightened cities like Paris have made this legal, and turning right on red is legal for cars and bikes in much of the US.

Don't get annoyed just because cyclists are getting home quicker than you. If there are safety issues, then yes, let's enforce the existing laws. And let's find ways to encourage more cycling. 30% of teenage girls are obese, according to last week's release from the Growing Up in Ireland survey. Less car journeys, more bike journeys.

Dear Complainer,

This is not about how fast I can get home. This is about basic safety, respecting the laws and rules of the road.

Kindest Regards

Mr. Earl.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Dear Complainer,

This is not about how fast I can get home. This is about basic safety, respecting the laws and rules of the road.

Kindest Regards

Mr. Earl.

Basic safety? What does that mean?

 

[Leo]

The cyclists were on the hard shoulder of the dual carriageway which breaks when there's an exit ramp.

They had to cross the mouth of the exit lane to go straight ahead on the carriageway and as they were travelling at a much lower speed than the traffic on the dual carriageway and were spread out in ones, twos and threes, the traffic trying to get off the dual carriageway had to stop as they were unable to enter the exit ramp.

The traffic was quite heavy on this particular day, it caused chaos at the off ramp and I just think it's very dangerous to allow cyclists to cycle on dual carriageways, both for themselves and motorists.

The obvious solution to this is to have the cyclists cycle two abrest in the left hand lane as they are entitled to do.

 

[elcato]

The obvious solution to this is to have the cyclists cycle two abrest in the left hand lane as they are entitled to do.

Or if there is an entrance ramp similar to a moterway they should take the exit and then re-enter.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Or if there is an entrance ramp similar to a moterway they should take the exit and then re-enter.

Why on earth would they do that? That would hold up the people leaving even more?

 

[elcato]

Why on earth would they do that? That would hold up the people leaving even more?

Safety ? Not going across a busy cut off point. As I said if it has an entrance and an exit then it's simply up and down a ramp. How will it hold up cars even more ?

 

[AlbacoreA]

Because to get across at the top and down the other side you have to straight. Cross over the road at the top. So to prevent cars cutting you off as they turn left at the top you're going to have keep out (as you approach the junction) to force them to pull in line with the cyclists. Considering its going to be uphill and involve a junction its going to be even slower.

This is really a problem of cars, going to fast when approaching an exit and not giving themselves enough time to slow down to slower traffic and the exit. Its also not seeing cyclists and being aware you have to adjust your speed to filter in with the cyclists if you are turning left.

If the speed differential is too great, there's an argument its not suitable for cyclists and/or the speed limits are too high for that exit.

Of course the other side of it, is cyclists have to cross side roads all the time. They have to be considered park of the traffic, not separate or lesser traffic. Otherwise you end up with this madness...

http://www.dublincycling.com/node/507

 

[Firefly]

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it. I understand your frustration on some of these points, but really, you don't want to make things more difficult for cyclists. The more people that cycle, the less people that drive. The less people that drive, the quicker you get home. If you make things difficult for cyclists, many of them will get back in their cars instead, and will be holding you up in traffic. But when they are on their bikes, you'll generally get past them in a second or two.

I share your concern on some of things you list. I hate to see cyclists on the footpath around pedestrians, and I'll often take action to deter this when I'm on foot, like waving my arms windmill-like, or asking them if they are 8 years old. I hate to see cyclists breezing through lights and endangering themselves and other traffic. But other times, it really isn't a huge problem when cyclists turn left on a red light. Some more enlightened cities like Paris have made this legal, and turning right on red is legal for cars and bikes in much of the US.

Don't get annoyed just because cyclists are getting home quicker than you. If there are safety issues, then yes, let's enforce the existing laws. And let's find ways to encourage more cycling. 30% of teenage girls are obese, according to last week's release from the Growing Up in Ireland survey. Less car journeys, more bike journeys.

Excellent post.

 

[delgirl]

The obvious solution to this is to have the cyclists cycle two abrest in the left hand lane as they are entitled to do.

Entitlement doesn't mean it's safe - it's more dangerous for the cyclists than it is for the motorists. Anyone who wants to share a road with vehicles travelling at 100kmph is living dangerously. The back-draft from a truck doing 80kmph is enough to knock a cyclist off their bike.

In the interests of road safety, cycling on dual carriageways should be banned.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Considering the numbers using the N11 dual Carriageway it must be carnage....

“Over the 9 month period, there was a daily average of almost 400 cyclists per day using the cycle route. Almost 90% of all weekly trips take place Monday to Friday with 57% of these trips between 8am and 10am, mainly consisting of commuters and students. The highest recorded days since the counter was installed occurred towards the end of September with 833 cyclists recorded on 27 September and 876 cyclists recorded on 28 September 2011. Tuesday is the busiest day for cyclists on the cycle route.”

 

[delgirl]

Considering the numbers using the N11 dual Carriageway it must be carnage....

I should have been more specific regarding the areas I would consider dangerous as the N11 is a very long road.

The stats below were recorded by Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council and refer to the stretch of dual carriageway running through that council area which, quite rightly, has cycle paths or cycle lanes.

The N11 and M11 between the Beehive Pub in Wicklow and Loughlinstown Roundabout is all mototway and dual carriageway which doesn't have cycle lanes or cycle paths. Cyclists are cycling on both the dual carriageway and the motorway and in this section of the N11 / M11 it is very dangerous.

 

[dereko1969]

Entitlement doesn't mean it's safe - it's more dangerous for the cyclists than it is for the motorists. Anyone who wants to share a road with vehicles travelling at 100kmph is living dangerously. The back-draft from a truck doing 80kmph is enough to knock a cyclist off their bike.

In the interests of road safety, cycling on dual carriageways should be banned.

In the interests of road safety, drivers should take care when exiting dual carriageways and slow down when approaching an exit and be aware that there may be cyclists about.

 

[Leo]

Entitlement doesn't mean it's safe - it's more dangerous for the cyclists than it is for the motorists. Anyone who wants to share a road with vehicles travelling at 100kmph is living dangerously.

Anyone using the roads accepts a certain level of risk, all road users having a little respect for each other reduces the risk. Cycling two abrest is actually safer than single file, as it forces cars to wait until there is sufficient room to fully cross to the other lane while overtaking rather than try to squeeze past when there is oncoming traffic. As someone who spends more time driving than cycling, I know it does hold up traffic though, so I rarely do it, even though I have been hit a number of times by drivers trying to pass me with oncoming traffic. (Had one last week where a driver clipped my handlebars with their mirror, then proceeded to mount the footpath right in front of me in their rush to get past before meeting oncoming traffic on a narrow street.)

Also vehicles should only be travelling at 100kmph when it is safe to do so. Do you consider it safe to pass very close to a cyclist, padestrian, horse rider, etc. at 100kmph?

The back-draft from a truck doing 80kmph is enough to knock a cyclist off their bike.

Only if the truck passed within inches of the cyclist, and doing so is obviously dangerous driving.

In the interests of road safety, cycling on dual carriageways should be banned.

Why are dual carriageways more dangerouse than single carriageways? They generally have better sight lines and certainly fewer tight/blind corners than the average rural road. The stats would also state otherwise. In the first half of this year, there were 6 cycling fatalities, 4 of those were within Dublin City limits, and so within 60kmph limits. 1 of the other two was the hit and run case im Kerry where Gardai stated it was their belief the car was on the wrong side of the road.

60% of collision cases involve side-on impact for the cyclist too. So the greatest danger is drivers turning off/onto roads without noticing the cyclist.

 

[Time]

Time to make cyclists accountable by making them get compulsory 3rd party insurance.