garda procedure at speed trap

[theengineer]

I'd also add that it's highly unlikely that even the least maintained and uncalibrated detector would be so off as to confuse 50 and below for 80 kph.

.

I tend to agree.

It is intresting though, if these speed detectors are not calibrated, the state is going to get someone bringing this point up.

It wont be me, my problem is i go too slow, and am proably a nuisance, just have attended too many funerals of children of friends, who died in single car crashes. Not a nice thing to do, that is why i do feel for the poor guard who has to knock on the door to deliver the bad news.

 

[MrMan]

So doing 80 kph in a 50 kph zone doesn't count as real speeding?

Like my post said I wonder was the limit approriate for the area it was used in as there are many cases that I have seen where a 50km zone appeared for little reason and where a lower limit would be warranted in other cases.

 

[Padraigb]

Like my post said I wonder was the limit approriate for the area it was used in as there are many cases that I have seen where a 50km zone appeared for little reason and where a lower limit would be warranted in other cases.

No, you took a much stronger position. You said "it sounds like the usual carry on of Guards waiting in the 50km zone rather than out where the real speeding takes place. "

 

[theengineer]

Like my post said I wonder was the limit approriate for the area it was used in as there are many cases that I have seen where a 50km zone appeared for little reason and where a lower limit would be warranted in other cases.

yes, that seems to happen a lot through out the country. I am not sure where this happened,

 

[theengineer]

just thought of something else, anyone know does a police man, and woman need to produce id, when in this situation, or only when requested, Are there expiry dates on this id ?

 

[theengineer]

Unfortunately with speeding prosecutions, you must prove you innocence. The law was changed a few years ago to give the presumption of the detection device is working correctly. The accused must prove that it was not.
.

Anyone know when this was changed, statute number etc,

 

[Marathon Man]

Nope, in law it is assumed that the device used is calibrated correctly. It is up to you to prove it is not. An impossible task.

"An impossible task"
I don't know about that. Difficult I'll concede, but not impossible.

There are a whole pile of questions here, even if incorrect calibration cannot be proven: When was it calibrated? When was it due for recalibration. Was it recalibrated within the manufacturer's recommended time period? Was it repaired? Were original manufacturer's certified parts used? Was it recalibrated following repairs? Who calibrated it? Were they trained? Was the operator/garda trained?

I've often wondered about these. Frankly I'd be surprised if the validation trail held up. Marathon Man - another Engineer!

 

[theengineer]

actually i forgot about the training part of it, " were they trained to use the equipment" well done marathon man, i think this was a big thing when the alchol measuring device was introduced to the stations a few years ago. I am mad with myself that i did not think of it.

Even if it was within calibration it could have got knocked about enough to cause a problem.

I found a pat tester once that passed lots of things, and discovered it was fauty, one of the guys left it fall, some circuit board got loose.

Wow this speeding thing is getting intresting, i am still fot making the lady walk for a few weeks, but there are many issues involved, in what seemed to be so clear cut .

 

[deadwood]

The devices are regularly returned to the manufacturers for calibration and this is certified by them. (No, I don't know what this involves - they drop eggs out of a hot air balloon, or something)

These certs are sometimes requested in court.

Members using the device must be trained and are certified. You will often hear guards starting their evidence with "i am a trained operator of brand-x laser device...."

And no, an identity card doesn't expire - just the hairline in the photo!

 

[Marathon Man]

Members using the device must be trained and are certified. You will often hear guards starting their evidence with "i am a trained operator of brand-x laser device...."

And no, an identity card doesn't expire - just the hairline in the photo!

Well you've answered a few of the questions raised, however....to confirm that they have been trained properly, they should, besides stating in their evidence, show documentary evidence of the training process. e.g. when they were trained, who trained them, was the trainer certified, etc? Is their training up to date? These are questions that are asked in many industries.

Other questions: Is the software up to date? Has it been updated on this model?

 

[gallogly]

She asked me, because she knows I have a law degree, however both her husband and I would be happy to see her face the music. I myself have a total dislike for speeding. I always feel sorry for the member of gardai who has to knock at the door of someone to say that a family member was killed due a road accident.

I would be delighted to find out the corect procedure if anyone knows it.

you seem to be building up an arsenal of facts/questions that may be used to beat this speeding rap, and this does not tie in with your original statement above.
Why dont you just ask the question outright ?

 

[MrMan]

No, you took a much stronger position. You said "it sounds like the usual carry on of Guards waiting in the 50km zone rather than out where the real speeding takes place. "

My stronger position was in the entirity of the post, my second reply was to your specific question, i was explaining that sometimes speed limits are not appropriate for the area they are put up, would you not agree? I also firmly believe that speed traps tend to be in locations where people will either be caught slowing down or accelerating out of 50km zones rather than areas where people are zooming along and at their most dangerous. would you not concur that speed traps tend not to be in the best places to curb speeding but to simply just catch easy targets.

 

[Caveat]

Nope, in law it is assumed that the device used is calibrated correctly. It is up to you to prove it is not. An impossible task.

Not an impossible task at all - it's quite straightforward - but expensive.

However getting them to supply the detector for independent testing is another matter.

 

[theengineer]

I did drive to the place this morning to look for myself, it was a place where i would expect the max speed to be 50km ph, there is a school near by. So if her speed was 80, she was driving dangerously. I had a chat with the lady in question and advised her to sit tight till she is contacted. I also pointed out to her that the speed limit was well signposted, and she needs to watch her driving in the future.

I now have done my good duty for the day.

 

[deadwood]

Well you've answered a few of the questions raised, however....to confirm that they have been trained properly, they should, besides stating in their evidence, show documentary evidence of the training process. e.g. when they were trained, who trained them, was the trainer certified, etc? Is their training up to date? These are questions that are asked in many industries.

Other questions: Is the software up to date? Has it been updated on this model?

Well, they're calibrated to read km/h. Unless the km has been made longer of unit of time has been shortened since the last calibration?

The training is quite thorough as any measure taken in this area (i.e. road safety - intoxylizers, speed detection etc.) is scrutinised minutely in court to exploit any loophole.

Of course, a certificate of completion of training can be produced.

I won't go into the whole "shooting fish in a barrell" thing. It's been trashed out on every barstool and forum in the country.

 

[Caveat]

Well, they're calibrated to read km/h. Unless the km has been made longer of unit of time has been shortened since the last calibration?

Not the point - the sensors in any device can drift and lose accuracy.

The point of a calibration certificate is to verify the accuracy of the unit by comparing it against the reference readings of a certified standard, generally on an annual basis.

 

[deadwood]

I understand Caveat, just stirring a bit. The smiley face didn't have the desired effect, I guess.

If it hasn't happened already, i'm sure it's only a matter of time before an expert will have to go to court to outline the procedure.

It's refreshing to see the thread hasn't descended into the usual speed trap drivel.

I can only pitch in with my experience and don't claim to be an expert.

 

[RSMike]

I got done about two years ago for doing 65Km in a 50Km zone on a motorcycle, however, I was aware the speed trap was there as I had passed by earlier, so as far as Iam concerned my speedo was right on 50Km, however as I approached the speed trap a large van just ahead of me was accelearting away clearly breaking the limit, the Garda gun was pointed at me, but the van was also still in its view.
I could not believe they done me,, it was only when I read later about tests done on these guns proving they nearly always pick the biggest target in their field of vision, that I realised what happened. I remember at the time I was done, thinking, why did they not stop the van also.

Thought about fighting it, but how do you prove something like that, Just paid the fine and took the points / got penalised on my bike & car insurance,

 

[derh50]

Does anyone know if the Gardai are supposed to wear florescent yellow slip when using Speed Gun. I was stopped recently - the Garda jumped out from behind a pole - in dark uniform. Impossible to see!

 

[keithkarl200]

i don't recall where i seen it but the speed traps or equipment used is supposed to be tested every morning before it is used and the appropriate paper work has to be signed before it leaves