Future price of Irish properties

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I was saying before that I thought houses will end up being split

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Does anybody know if this house was always built like this or changed later. It looks like a regular house chnaged if you ask me and I think there might be more coming.

The Sunday Business post yesterday pointed out that more people will be down sizing. Where people have been saying some housese can only be sold to thoses up grading the SBP suggested a portion is or should be people downsizing in the area. 1.2mill house down size to 600k etc...

I think the central register would just keep people informed right now you have to "trust" the agents asking prices to gauge the house value.
 
Looks like a conversion to me Loki. Still cant understand the split theory you propagate as far as the market is concerned.??
 
It's a Granny flat.... such "Conversions" have been around for a long time.

What is different: that it is being offered for sale on it's own.
What is mad: the asking price
 
Well I suppose if you've already sold the back garden to developers you might as well start selling the upper floor.

Think this kind of deal would require pretty tight legal supervision. Who's responsible for repairing the roof for example?
 
MugsGame said:
I've seen a few house splits around East Wall/North Strand.
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Well they are all over the place in older houses - landlords have been doing it for years, sometimes with and sometimes without planning permission. Certainly lots in E. Wall/N. Strand/Fairview/Drumcondra all right (not to mention Rathmines).

This kind of two family house thing is not typical in the Irish market. Maybe in the future, you never know. Lots of work to be done setting rules (and laws) about who pays for what maintenance etc.
 
It was pretty common in a lot of suburbs in London when I lived there in the 70s & 80s - it's a question of supply and demand, I presume.

If the buyers/renters can't afford a whole house and there's a shortage of appartments then it would seem like an obvious way to met the demand for 1 or 2 bedroom accommodation. Not so sure that it will be the case in Dublin, as there seem sto be a lot appartments being built, but this may not be the case in all areas.
 
I suspect you're right. Why buy a granny flat when you can get a purpose built apartment, as opposed to a split suburban (or urban) building, with all the compromises that entails?
 
extopia said:
I suspect you're right. Why buy a granny flat when you can get a purpose built apartment, as opposed to a split suburban (or urban) building, with all the compromises that entails?
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I lived in several houses in London which had been converted like this and it was never a great experience. Sound-proofing and room layout was always compromised.

A purpose built unit would be better but London did/does not have anything like the land available for development relative to Dublin (save for Docklands) so the amount of new apartment building was very low indeed. Conversions were/are common.

Anyway, back to the topic :) . I don't get why this will drive up prices. I think it will increase the supply of units in certain areas, but I don't see it affecting prices that much. Does anyone other than Loki see how it will?
 
I suspect it could drive prices down in some ways. These conversions could reduce the value of the original untouched houses surrounding them by overpopulating residential streets not designed for apartments/flats. This is why many residents associations tend to oppose this kind of development.
 
From what I understand I don't think Loki has suggested that this behaviour would drive up prices, I think the point is that if prices don't change, the way people live will....giving rise to these alternative living unit formats.
 
The option of living in half a house has been around for decades. I think in these circumstances people would be happier to rent.
 
I think some people misunderstood what I was saying. I think there will be an increase in this type of conversion and that they will be sold as opposed to rented out. The reason this will happen is there will be more single people. While yes there are appartments around there could be a shortage of such properties close to services and work. This one just happened to be the first I saw for sale. Purpose built appartments may remain more desirable but considering some building standards a split house may be more solid and roomier and therfore more desirable.
I just think this is part of what will happen in the property market. It allows property to go up in value as the seperated house can be worth more than the whole. People are running out gardens to build houses on and 5% of the houses on my road are now split with 80% in the last 5 years. I think it is happening with young couples doing it with parents transforming family houses. Very few FTB can afford to buy in my area but they might be able to buy half a house. Some areas will always be more desirable
 
Loki I think that Mr Reality will have come knocking long before the great splitting phenomena takes a grip.
 
Duplex said:
Loki I think that Mr Reality will have come knocking long before the great splitting phenomena takes a grip.
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Look I am telling you a factor that I don't believe is being considered about the housing market. You want to talk about what happens in the US property market and how it will effect prices here. I want to talk about what is actually happening in the property market here. You want to ignore what I say fine but don't riddiule it becasue you don't know what is going to happen!!
THe reality is somebody is selling a unit split from a house and people already said it wouldn't happen here. It is and an example is provided. Want to point to a house price in the US and link hoe it is actually effecting the house price on my road as opposed to a theory about how it might?
I suggest a factor that will effect house prices in Ireland as it will effectthe housing stock. Many people here are only talking economics and forget the actual market is in houses/property so what effects the housing stock is actually really important. Peopla are using the belief house prices can't keep going up. I am providing a plausable factor that can allow prices in areas to continue to go up.
 
What you are suggesting is that houses can be split into flats. If a house is worth say €700,000 and can be split to form two self contained flats each worth say €400,000 then the house is worth €800,000. Take away the cost of conversion say €50,000 and the house is worth €750,000 fine. But the economics of splitting only applies in certain areas. Loki prices are rocketing at the moment there is no need to go splitting to add value.


We have enough zoned land to accommodate over 300,000 new homes in Ireland, more than enough to accommodate low cost immigrants who will come to work here and rent accommodation from us. Lets hope some savvy businesses don’t figure that it might be cheaper to move the jobs to where these people come from
 
Duplex said:
We have enough zoned land to accommodate over 300,000 new homes in Ireland, more than enough to accommodate low cost immigrants who will come to work here and rent accommodation from us. Lets hope some savvy businesses don’t figure that it might be cheaper to move the jobs to where these people come from
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I didn't suggest that. I said housing could keep rising due to the housing stock changing. I also suggested that you can reduce your liability when buying for investemnt if you consider the ability to add value. The figure you used are on the small scale if the margins get bigger people will do it. investors may do it to increase reantal yield.

You seem to be missing what I am saying about supply and demand. THere is enough room in Donegal to provding housing for all those who want a house. Why does that not matter? Becasue it is Donegal and people want to live close to work and services. The supply of houses in Dublin and other centres of work is limited. I believe a bigger price differential will happen between Dublin and the rest of the country . That actually makes it more likely that people will live in smaller (maybe converted) property due to high costs. London is a prime example of what could happen, low amount of purpose built high density housing in victorian times. THe victorian housing was converted when higher density was needed. ROme, New York and Paris already had a huge stock of high density housing from the start so it didn't do the same. Ireland had a housing boom in the 70s and 80s but it is low density. I think it makes logical sense to see these houses being changed. I am seeing it happen with the bigger older houses (40s,50s) a lot quicker than before and being done by developers straight after purcahse.

It is a factor some people ignore when mentioned and others choose not to beleive as possible. Fine if you think it will have little impact but to deny it just means you made your opinion regardless of the facts.
 
Loki said:
I didn't suggest that. I said housing could keep rising due to the housing stock changing. I also suggested that you can reduce your liability when buying for investemnt if you consider the ability to add value. The figure you used are on the small scale if the margins get bigger people will do it. investors may do it to increase reantal yield.

You seem to be missing what I am saying about supply and demand. THere is enough room in Donegal to provding housing for all those who want a house. Why does that not matter? Becasue it is Donegal and people want to live close to work and services. The supply of houses in Dublin and other centres of work is limited. I believe a bigger price differential will happen between Dublin and the rest of the country . That actually makes it more likely that people will live in smaller (maybe converted) property due to high costs. London is a prime example of what could happen, low amount of purpose built high density housing in victorian times. THe victorian housing was converted when higher density was needed. ROme, New York and Paris already had a huge stock of high density housing from the start so it didn't do the same. Ireland had a housing boom in the 70s and 80s but it is low density. I think it makes logical sense to see these houses being changed. I am seeing it happen with the bigger older houses (40s,50s) a lot quicker than before and being done by developers straight after purcahse.

It is a factor some people ignore when mentioned and others choose not to beleive as possible. Fine if you think it will have little impact but to deny it just means you made your opinion regardless of the facts.
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higher density is required so existing houses is being knocked down and higher rise is being built and on new sites larger apartment blocks will be built.no one is saying existing houses wont be changed into multiple units just that this in its self wont add to prices of houses.people buying homes arent stupid,if a "half house" costs a lot more than half an identical full house then they wont buy it! if anything increasing the number of smaller units will allow people to downsize from larger houses and free up space for larger families and increase total number of units in housing stock and lower prices. the previous poster pointed out theres 300,000 units of zoned land available in ireland and this will increase,theres plenty of room to expand in dublin ,have you ever looked at an aerial photo of dublin city?? its remarkably low rise and lacking density but this is being addressed by planners and in next ten year we'll have far greater densities in dublin with greater supply and this will impact prices if they havent already been affected by interest rates economy etc.
 
Split houses are for renters. Always have been, will stay that way in my opinion. I really don't see the issue here. And I don't see any evidence that single family homes are being split and sold as multiple units by developers after purchase. (Such activity requires planning permission, by the way).

Perhaps these houses are being split and RENTED by landlords, with or without planning permission. That is another story.

Again - there is no need to buy half a house when you can buy an apartment. I don't see any advantage whatsoever. Apartments are being built in EVERY area of Dublin (and most smaller towns too).

The theory is interesting, but holds no water.
 
extopia said:
Again - there is no need to buy half a house when you can buy an apartment. I don't see any advantage whatsoever. Apartments are being built in EVERY area of Dublin (and most smaller towns too).
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Location, Location, Location.
 
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