Loki said:THere are no guarantees for anything other than death
Loki said:Actually I am assuming that over time property increases in value in a 10-20 like I said and thonce you own it the income is all profit. Some of you guys seem to forget as time goes on you own more of the property untill you own it all. So "yield", if you want to look at it that way, can drop but in real terms to the person be increasing. Owning an asset that gives a return is the "yield" some people are looking at. Look at the long term not the short sight of there willl be a crash today or tomorrow.
Great post Marie.Marie said:It interests me greatly that this myth is so persistent and that most people committing themselves to responsibility for paying off huge sums ("mortgages") seem unable to understand a basic fact of life. It is this. If a person wants/desires/needs 'something' (lets say 'a property') and has no money with which to buy it s(he) can at an additional cost ("interest") use someone else's money short-term to acquire the object of desire.
askalot said:Apparently we here in Ireland have very special houses - they're the only ones in the world that can't devalue! In fact, of all the potential areas an investor could put their money, Irish property is the one, the only one, that's a sure fire bet.
Marie said:Fairytales of treasure and wealth at rainbow's end were moral tales warning of self-deception laziness and greed and pointers to the reality that life is struggle, resources are scarce and all we can be certain of are death and taxes.
askalot said:Apparently we here in Ireland have very special houses - they're the only ones in the world that can't devalue! In fact, of all the potential areas an investor could put their money, Irish property is the one, the only one, that's a sure fire bet.
gearoid said:We are one of the richest countries in the World so I don't think we can complain too much compared to the 90% of the planet in infinitely poorer circumstances.
agreed , when i have enough i'll move abroad to a country with better weather lifestyle etc and buy a home outright and work little!!!Eurofan said:I've long felt that in years to come we'll look back on this as "the wasted years" where surplus upon surplus was pissed down the drain with little or nothing to show for it in the long term.
A genuine scandal in my honest opinion but we, the voting public, have only ourselves to blame in the end of the day.
Preposterious house prices included my better half and I see more and more reason to look further afield for our future lives and i don't think we're alone.
While I'm sure that some people are doing this I'm not so sure that most are. If you have any hard evidence to the contrary though I'd be glad to read it.extopia said:Couldn't agree more. Ireland is exhibiting classic "nouveau riche" behaviour - all our income seems to be going into cars, houses and expensive holidays. And borrowing. It seems the "richer" we are, the more debt we're prepared to take on.
ClubMan said:While I'm sure that some people are doing this I'm not so sure that most are. If you have any hard evidence to the contrary though I'd be glad to read it.
I don't hold with the pessimistic outlook/analysis outlined in the previous two posts to be honest.
bearishbull said:we are spending our income(as a nation)to a great extent on expensive houses and imported cars clothes holidays etc which are all unproductive.construction is a massive element of irish economy and as david mc williams points out today any slowdown there has a negative multiplier effect throughout the economy,combined with the slowdown in consumer spending by consumers who feel less wealthy as house price rises slow or fall and you have problems.
the multinationals wont be here forever and we dont have any great indigenous companies or industries competing on world stage to keep the party going.
basically we're spending too much on living now and consuming and not invested in the long term productivity of the economy through increased spending on r&d education and development or irish companies that can compete on world markets .
do we just wanna be a tax haven for multinationals and one big construction site?
that savings rate is high partly because of the ssia's and need to save for alarge mortgage deposit, lets see what the saving rate is like in 2007/8. i think theres a lot of older people that save a lot but most young people i know save little ,with priavte sector credit growing at 30% per annum and due to hit 400billion in next two years savings will decrease.tyoung said:Davy's put the Irish savings rate at 15%. This is very high relative to other countries with real estate booms(UK, US, Australia) and would suggest that there is a cushion that could be tapped if interest rates rose significantly. A crash seems unlikely more like a long period of flat prices in real terms.
Regards
tyoung said:Davy's put the Irish savings rate at 15%. This is very high relative to other countries with real estate booms(UK, US, Australia) and would suggest that there is a cushion that could be tapped if interest rates rose significantly. A crash seems unlikely more like a long period of flat prices in real terms.
Regards
It certainly will if large numbers of the latter decide to up sticks and seek greener pastures elsewhere. Seeing as the expanded EU is available nowadays the options are a great deal wider than the UK/USA of old.thewatcher said:I would contend that in general the over 40's have money coming out their ears and the over 20's soon enough won't have a pot to piss in.There will be major repercussions for the economy if this is not addressed in the future .
Something interesting I noticed yesterday, I picked up both the Sunday Business Post & Sunday Tribune. In fairness to the SBP it had at least four articles that were bear-ish in the area of house prices/reliance of economy on a single sector - construction/the irish addiction to credit. The Tribune had zip, in fact most of it's 'business' section was propertybeattie said:Well said, if you were to pick up a copy of our broadsheets you would swear that property is a one way bet.
You misunderstood what I said and then descirbed a particular slanted view. If you invest into a pension scheme you are risking your future on the markets. Instead of doing that you put the money into a house even with the asset floating on the wave of inflation and other factors rent would generally stay inline with inflation giving a good return. Each rent check is income and a return and then there is also the appreciation of the property. Over a long period of time 20-30 property generally goes up , not for sure but compared to most things pretty good. Some people buy a smaller house close to services they think they will need in old age and rented it untill they decide to down size and then rent the bigger family house. Not everybody can do things like this but in the right locations. So say if you get a mortgage for an investment poperty even if you subsidise the rent for say €200 a month (i.e. 5% of your income) if you bought a few years ago your current mortgage so your current mortgage is €600 a month (15%) now somebody (same income)who buys now might take pay €1000 (25%) for his house. Now if that is 20% income on 2 houses vs 25% income 1 house. Now if the market crashes the first guy is still in better shape. So some of this talk of investors panicing why would they? Say if they can't rent as people say you can lower rents and still be doing better than the 2nd guy. If you buy the right property you should be sheltered. After 20 years the 1st guy can borrow on the equity of his investment to pay of his mortgage and get extra rent relief on his rental property. Eventually the mortgages are gone 1st guy has had an extra 5% all his life and a rental proeprty for a pension plus the same as the other guy and maybe more.Marie said:It interests me greatly that this myth is so persistent and that most people committing themselves to responsibility for paying off huge etc...
I think you should have explained what you think the profit is then did all those costs go over €10k. Obviously there are costs but effectively €100k is profit in simple terms if it is an investment property but your home is only different if you can plan to buy in the same market. People move,downsize etc... so it can be profit. Certain parts of the market rise quicker than others so if you time it right you can win.Marie said:To be even more explicit, if I take a mortgage today to purchase a 400K house and next year sell that house on for 500K my profit IS NOT 100K!!!
Loki this is the point that myself & others on this board would like to make to property speculators in this country. The problem is that the vast majority do not see this and are spoon fed the notion of the one way property bet.Loki said:It is a really complex and forever changing.
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