Formula 1 and Rugby World Cup

Sherman said:
I think people take this supporting England thing too seriously. Why on earth should we support England, or any other country for that matter? England sure as hell don't support France, even though they are geographically far nearer than we are to England. France don't support Belgium. Last time I looked, Australia don't exactly cheer for New Zealand in any sport. It's healthy rivalry and schadenfraude (sp?), nothing more - or following Purple's argument should Arsenal fans cheer Chelsea if they make it to the Champions League final against say Real Madrid just because they're from the same city? Wallowing in another team's sporting misfortune is part of enjoying sport, as much as your own team winning - sport is after all primarily about rivalry.

There seems to have developed a certain orthodoxy in Ireland in recent years that if you don't support every England team as soon as Ireland is not a factor in any tournament / sporting event, that you're some kind of unreconstructed bigot. I reject that utterly - even if you don't agree with what I say above, many Irish people don't support English teams/athletes because of the nauseating jingoism of their sporting media.
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I don't automatically support England but in the case of the RWC I admired how they exceeded expectations. I also admired the fact that they were oldest team in the tournament, with the oldest player ever to play in a final. Therefore I supported their team when they played against South Africa. I would have cheered for Argentina if they had made it to the final against England as I also admire their team.
As Seagull pointed out, there is a bid difference between supporting English teams as a matter of course and childishly cheering for anyone they play against.
As for the "nauseating jingoism of their sporting media", no one is forcing you to watch British TV or read British newspapers. Try the Irish media for a change.
 
ivuernis said:
I only wish the Irish team could have "bottled it" in the same fashion as England at the RWC. England exceeded expectations as this world cup so fair play to them, Ireland on the other hand...
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The difference is that no one really cares about rugby in Ireland (however the D4 based media would like you to believe otherwise!)I dont know anyone that plays or played rugby - I dont even know someone who knows someone that plays rugby.Infact I would almost like to see Ireland getting beaten in rugby than England.(that wont sit well with the D4 types and forgetful new middle classes) ;)
 
Sherman said:
I think people take this supporting England thing too seriously. Why on earth should we support England, or any other country for that matter? England sure as hell don't support France, even though they are geographically far nearer than we are to England. France don't support Belgium. Last time I looked, Australia don't exactly cheer for New Zealand in any sport. It's healthy rivalry and schadenfraude (sp?), nothing more - or following Purple's argument should Arsenal fans cheer Chelsea if they make it to the Champions League final against say Real Madrid just because they're from the same city? Wallowing in another team's sporting misfortune is part of enjoying sport, as much as your own team winning - sport is after all primarily about rivalry.

There seems to have developed a certain orthodoxy in Ireland in recent years that if you don't support every England team as soon as Ireland is not a factor in any tournament / sporting event, that you're some kind of unreconstructed bigot. I reject that utterly - even if you don't agree with what I say above, many Irish people don't support English teams/athletes because of the nauseating jingoism of their sporting media.
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here here!!!
 
slamdunkin said:
The difference is that no one really cares about rugby in Ireland (however the D4 based media would like you to believe otherwise!)I dont know anyone that plays or played rugby - I dont even know someone who knows someone that plays rugby.Infact I would almost like to see Ireland getting beaten in rugby than England.(that wont sit well with the D4 types and forgetful new middle classes) ;)
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You're not from Munster then...
 
slamdunkin said:
The difference is that no one really cares about rugby in Ireland (however the D4 based media would like you to believe otherwise!)I dont know anyone that plays or played rugby - I dont even know someone who knows someone that plays rugby.Infact I would almost like to see Ireland getting beaten in rugby than England.(that wont sit well with the D4 types and forgetful new middle classes) ;)
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Simply not true to say that nobody really cares about Rugby in Ireland.
 
I thought this current crop of English players handled themselves very well during this world cup. The underdog tag suited them as they lost alot of the arrogance that surrounded the 2003 vintage. I thought the way that they handled the 'no try' on Saturday night was a credit to them. Martin Johnson telling the commentator to stop going on about it was priceless!
I for one would not have been disapointed to see England win it but I was glad that South Africa did because I thought they deserved it as they remained unbeaten throughout the tournament. Credit to England though. If the Irish team had achieved what they did, we would have open top buses and receptions in the Phoenix Park.
 
Purple said:
I don't automatically support England but in the case of the RWC I admired how they exceeded expectations. I also admired the fact that they were oldest team in the tournament, with the oldest player ever to play in a final. Therefore I supported their team when they played against South Africa. I would have cheered for Argentina if they had made it to the final against England as I also admire their team.
As Seagull pointed out, there is a bid difference between supporting English teams as a matter of course and childishly cheering for anyone they play against.
As for the "nauseating jingoism of their sporting media", no one is forcing you to watch British TV or read British newspapers. Try the Irish media for a change.
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I never said I was forced to consume British media, although it is kind of hard given that we receive at a guess 20 times more British television stations than Irish - you might also look at the main RTE 9 O'Clock news of a Sunday evening - more often than not the first sporting item they lead with is that day's English football.

I don't care why you supported England in the rugby on Saturday - I was making a more general point. Sport is one of the few facets of modern life where it is permissible to express basic (and base) emotions. Live and let live - you may have evolved beyond most mere mortals, and well done on that, but like it or not sport is one of the few areas where it remains acceptable, nay expected, to voice visceral, illogical likes/dislikes, loves/hatreds, and where our basic emotions remain unsanitised by modern political correctness.
 
Sherman said:
but like it or not sport is one of the few areas where it remains acceptable, nay expected, to voice visceral, illogical likes/dislikes, loves/hatreds, and where our basic emotions remain unsanitised by modern political correctness.
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Not quite true given the fact that many sporting organisations impose penalties (e.g. fines, bans) for unacceptable behaviour of supporters of a particular club/team (e.g. racist or sectarian chanting etc.). For example have you recently read the stadium rules than normally apply to FIFA licensed soccer stadiums? The ones that apply to [broken link removed] for example are fairly standard for eircom League grounds.
 
I was disappointed Hamilton messed up trying to re-take Alonso on the first lap. that was a rookie error. But to be fighting for the championship in his first year at 22 is some achievement ! Jacques Villeneuve did it with Williams alongside Hill but he had experience of CART in the US prior to F1.

Glad Raikonnen won it instead of 'he who spits dummies because his rookie teammate isn't a rollover' Alonso !!
 
The way our rugby & soccer teams have played in recent competitive tournaments I don't think we have any business pointing and laughing at English teams. They've been to the biggest stages in sport which is quite an achievment in itself. I wouldn't be Englands biggest fan but when we cant even qualify for major tournaments and take to laughing at England, who's players returned to a heroes welcome, I think we're the biggest losers then.
 
You take your opinions from Murray Walker? I didn't know he was Irish!

Another question which comes to mind - Have you ever been to, or played in, a rugby match?
 
The funniest thing about the F1 WC outcome was the reaction of Alonso on podium and in the interview afterwards. He was delighted that Raikkonen won and Hamilton didn't. While you can hardly blame him (no driver likes seeing his team mate take the title), he was so blatantly taking pleasure from it that surely even the spanish fans must realise how immature and childish he is now? Had it not dawned on him that he had alos lost the title? Or did playing a part in denying Hamilton the title outweigh and take precedence over the chance of his winning?

Whatever about his chances of retaining his McLaren drive next year before the race (and they were minimal) he may as well pack his bags now, as I don't imagine Dennis or indeed most of the McLaren team will even look him in the eye again, let alone accept him as a part of their team, given that he clearly has no concept of the word.

Of course the last laugh is on Alonso, as this season he has managed to alienate 2 top teams (McLaren and Ferrari (for his role in the spying scandal)), lose his title, ruin his reputation, and finally, line himself up with no chance of regaining his title next year...
 
BillK said:
You take your opinions from Murray Walker? I didn't know he was Irish!

Another question which comes to mind - Have you ever been to, or played in, a rugby match?
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I dont really care what Murray Walker says or thinks - I dont really care about formula 1 at all - its ranks up there with baseball and cricket for the most boring sports out there - however the accusation was made that "you dont know about the sport if you can say that" - surely Murray Walker, who I understand and recognise as someone who knows quite a bit about the sport, reckons that he bottled it and I think I would consider his opinion a little higher than yours - just on this subject mind you ;)

As you for playing rugby - I would never want to - generally the people follow rugby "get up my nose"
 
slamdunkin said:
As you for playing rugby - I would never want to - generally the people follow rugby "get up my nose"
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I never played rugby, I went to a GAA school, but I do like to watch it and have been to matches. "To say that the people follow rugby "get up my nose"" is a very sweeping statement and says more about you than them.
 
Purple said:
To say that the people follow rugby "get up my nose"" is a very sweeping statement and says more about you than them.
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I think we know what he means though. People have perceptions, rightly or wrongly, about the "image" of certain sports and to be fair, the sports themselves do little to challenge any myth that may exist. IMHO, the IRFU does little to challenge the elitist image with which it's associated.
 
Staples said:
I think we know what he means though. People have perceptions, rightly or wrongly, about the "image" of certain sports and to be fair, the sports themselves do little to challenge any myth that may exist. IMHO, the IRFU does little to challenge the elitist image with which it's associated.
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Does that mean that everyone who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?
If so Clubman and others here might have a thing or two to say about it.
When I go to matches (not very often I admit) I see a wide variety of people there supporting their team. Even if I got that impression of a crowd I would not assume that everyone there was the same.
 
Purple said:
Does that mean that everyone who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?
If so Clubman and others here might have a thing or two to say about it.
When I go to matches (not very often I admit) I see a wide variety of people there supporting their team. Even if I got that impression of a crowd I would not assume that everyone there was the same.
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I think if you read my post if does say "generally" therefore I think it would be safe to say that I was making a generalisation - please do try and keep up old boy!!
 
slamdunkin said:
I think if you read my post if does say "generally" therefore I think it would be safe to say that I was making a generalisation - please do try and keep up old boy!!
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My apologies, I stand most humbly rebuked.

Now, Does that mean that in general those who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?
If so Clubman and others here might have a thing or two to say about it.
When I go to matches (not very often I admit) I see a wide variety of people there supporting their team. Even if I got that impression of a crowd I would not assume that everyone there was the same.
 
Purple said:
Does that mean that everyone who supports Eircom League Soccer is skinny, smokes John Player Blue, wears a tracksuit and lives in a poor area?
If so Clubman and others here might have a thing or two to say about it.
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No - it's true! :D
 
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