Fisher Investments ??

jpd said:
Run away - .75% + .75% is 1.50%

If he can't even add?
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Welsh guy quotes 300 grand to do a job.

Scottish guy quotes 600 grand to do the job.

Irish guy quotes 900 grand.

“900 grand?! That’s outrageous!”

“Not really, 300 grand for me, 300 grand for you, and we pay the Welsh guy 300 grand to do the job!”
 
Sounds like you really need to shop around for a better advisor than the two that you're currently talking to. There are a few here on AAM who I reckon would be much better...

Also, you have asked a few times about "good performing funds". This doesn't really make sense. What you need to focus on are (a) charges and (b) what sort of asset mix and fund type and risk/reward/volatility profile (e.g. medium to high equity content, passively managed index tracker etc.) suits your needs. Looking at past performance is pointless.
 
charliehorse said:
The addition was my mistake.. but 1.5% obviously not in the ballpark.
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1.5% to 2%pa is actually the right ballpark for a properly disclosed ARF in Ireland.

Life insurance companies don’t fully disclose charges for pension products including ARFs which makes a direct comparison impossible between a MIFID discretionary service like Fisher Investments and the opaque world or life insurance company charging
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Welsh guy quotes 300 grand to do a job.

Scottish guy quotes 600 grand to do the job.

Irish guy quotes 900 grand.

“900 grand?! That’s outrageous!”

“Not really, 300 grand for me, 300 grand for you, and we pay the Welsh guy 300 grand to do the job!”
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Lol. I'm trying to find the Welsh guy as long as the work is the same.
ClubMan said:
Sounds like you really need to shop around for a better advisor than the two that you're currently talking to. There are a few here on AAM who I reckon would be much better...

Also, you have asked a few times about "good performing funds". This doesn't really make sense. What you need to focus on are (a) charges and (b) what sort of asset mix and fund type and risk/reward/volatility profile (e.g. medium to high equity content, passively managed index tracker etc.) suits your needs. Looking at past performance is pointless.
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Thanks Clubman. I understand that now. There is no crystal ball for the future.
You have outlined the questions I need answered by prospective agents.
I need to look at the actual fund contents and be happy with my choice and have the option to switch.
I need to get exact fees including fees for switching funds as conditions change.
Thanks to you lads, at least now I have some education before I meet these guys and not be swayed by past figures.
 
Don't be shy about pressing them on the fee's. Just ask bluntly for a transparent breakdown of the fees. Then ask them to use your sum as an example.

I.E. "If I invest 500K with you on the plan we are speaking about, please break down exactly how much I will pay in fee's and what the ongoing cost will be"

Some people are a little embarrassed to do that, don't be. It's important and it also tells you a bit about the guy. If they are transparent and up front about all fee's, then I'll consider using them. If you get the feeling they are being cagey or haven't explained their fee structure clearly, it puts me off straight away and I wouldn't even consider using them. Ask about commissions etc. too just to make sure they don't have a vested interest in steering you in a certain direction.
 
Always Learning said:
Don't be shy about pressing them on the fee's. Just ask bluntly for a transparent breakdown of the fees. Then ask them to use your sum as an example.

I.E. "If I invest 500K with you on the plan we are speaking about, please break down exactly how much I will pay in fee's and what the ongoing cost will be"

Some people are a little embarrassed to do that, don't be. It's important and it also tells you a bit about the guy. If they are transparent and up front about all fee's, then I'll consider using them. If you get the feeling they are being cagey or haven't explained their fee structure clearly, it puts me off straight away and I wouldn't even consider using them. Ask about commissions etc. too just to make sure they don't have a vested interest in steering you in a certain direction.
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Any I tried get uncomfortable discussing fees and try to gloss over them.
Fees are a large %age out of my fund, considering I take say 4% and they get 2% annually puts it in perspective.
In my own business, I always send an email after I do a deal outlining exact costs and what you get for their money.
I will press for full disclosure before I decide, which I now doubt I can get. If I am unhappy, I will walk.
What Marc said above sort of upsets the applecart...
 
Always Learning said:
Don't be shy about pressing them on the fee's. Just ask bluntly for a transparent breakdown of the fees. Then ask them to use your sum as an example.

I.E. "If I invest 500K with you on the plan we are speaking about, please break down exactly how much I will pay in fee's and what the ongoing cost will be"

Some people are a little embarrassed to do that, don't be. It's important and it also tells you a bit about the guy. If they are transparent and up front about all fee's, then I'll consider using them. If you get the feeling they are being cagey or haven't explained their fee structure clearly, it puts me off straight away and I wouldn't even consider using them. Ask about commissions etc. too just to make sure they don't have a vested interest in steering you in a certain direction.
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This is excellent advice. Some sales guys will try to focus only on quoting percentages, e.g. "1.5% inclusive of all fees, including the QFM, fund manager etc." Don't be afraid to ask for this to be broken down between all parties and then figure it out in euros and cents. So that you can go to the sales guy and say, for example - "If you're getting 0.5% per year from my fund which is €600,000, you're getting €3,000 per year. Please detail for me exactly what you'll be doing every year for your €3,000."

Just to complicate your task somewhat, not all fund charges are explicitly expressed in the annual fund management charge. There are are internal costs of running a fund which are usually included in the fund pricing. The better companies will have no problem publishing these on request. For example, Vanguard funds include Portfolio Transaction Costs of between 0.02% and 0.17% per year above the annual management charge. A good broker will tell you the full costs of any recommended fund.
 
Always Learning said:
I.E. "If I invest 500K with you on the plan we are speaking about, please break down exactly how much I will pay in fee's and what the ongoing cost will be
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In my opinion, there are two pertinent questions regarding charges here - e.g.
  1. I get you to invest my €500k in an ARF - what charges are levied at that stage in the initial investment?
  2. Say my fund grows from €500k to €550k in a year - what charges are levied at that stage in the growth?
@Marc and @Dave Vanian also make good points about less obvious/hidden charges.
 
The gold standard for fee disclosure isn't applied uniformly in Ireland. This is an example of what I would typically provide to a client based on a typical ARF in our business of €1m

Marc Westlake CFP, TEP, APFS, QFA, EFP
Chartered Certified and European Financial Planner
Everlake
 

Attachments

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An AMC of 2% is very expensive.

Here are some cheaper alternatives -

Cheapest ARF

A relative is due to purchase an ARF c. €130k. He is looking for a Global Equity Fund. He wants the cheapest all in option. I can’t find any Best ARF on the site. Any tips?
www.askaboutmoney.com
 
Marc said:
The gold standard for fee disclosure isn't applied uniformly in Ireland. This is an example of what I would typically provide to a client based on a typical ARF in our business of €1m

Marc Westlake CFP, TEP, APFS, QFA, EFP
Chartered Certified and European Financial Planner
Everlake
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Well done on the clarity of disclosure in both percentage terms and Euro terms. It's definitely one of the better ones I've seen.

I see that there is €5,000 per year for advice and another €5,500 per year for Investment Management, on top of the annual fund fees. Do you use a third party investment manager to pick funds or do you do that yourself?
 
The attachment Marc has posted above is exactly what you want to see. If I'm sitting down with a potential advisor and they produce that, then I feel comfortable enough to proceed. As I already said, if they get cagey about the fee's, keep walking.
 
So at the end of the day maybe 2% in total is not too far off the mark for a full honest declaration of fees.
Fisher Investments are that plus a one off payment of .3%
In fairness the Fisher guy did actually outline each charge and explained each as he went through them.
Is it possible to choose your own fund bets like you do with your Degiro account and save that way?
Is it possible to horse trade over the fees or are they fixed?
Seems like a lot of money for what you get annually, a coffee and biscuits and maybe a change of funds if you are disruptive.
Maybe I am totally wrong and there are a lot of research hours involved for the agent and managers.
My meeting next week will be much more interesting now at least.
 
charliehorse said:
So at the end of the day maybe 2% in total is not too far off the mark for a full honest declaration of fees.
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The thread that I linked above included an ARF with an AMC of 0.35% - 2% (or anything remotely like it) is a complete rip off.

Forget about making “fund bets” - just pick a reasonable allocation to global stock/bond index funds (I would suggest 60/40 as a default for an ARF).
 
Sarenco said:
The thread that I linked above included an ARF with an AMC of 0.35% - 2% (or anything remotely like it) is a complete rip off.

Forget about making “fund bets” - just pick a reasonable allocation to global stock/bond index funds (I would suggest 60/40 as a default for an ARF).
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Sorry, Sarenco
I did not realise that that was a link.
I will read it asap.
 
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