First hand experience of homeopathic remedies ?

[TarfHead]

Anyone here have any ? I'm interested in learning of first-hand experience, both positive and negative.

My son is attending a homeopath this morning to get some help with controlling emotion and temper. I am sceptical but am of the "sure it'll do no harm and may do some good" attitude.

My niece's eczema cleared dramatically after following the advice of a homeopath.

Any other (informed) views ?

 

[ClubMan]

Any other (informed) views ?

Yes.

There is absolutely no scientific basis to homeopathy. Any effects attributed to it are most likely explicable by placebo effects or the regressive fallacy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml
http://www.skepdic.com/homeo.html
http://www.homeowatch.org/
http://www.quackwatch.org/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=homeopathy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

Pseudoscience and quackery such as this should be discouraged.

 

[Janet]

I had to attend (was referred by GP) a homeopath in Germany while living there in 1996. I'd had several bad bouts of tonsilitis over a month or two and wasn't allowed have any more antibiotics. Before sending me off to get my tonsils chopped the doctor said I had to see a homeopath. He gave me two courses of tablets, one to clear the infection and another lasting a couple of months which was intended to build up my defences against another infection. It worked very well, I didn't have another bout of tonsilitis for about three years and have only had one other since. As I'd moved home in the meantime I just went to my GP but if I'd still been in Germany I probably would have gone back to the homeopath.

That's my only expericence and obviously as it was for a physical complaint it's a bit different. I'd imagine that you'll be given some advice re cutting out all articifical additives etc. from your son's diet. There are herbs etc. which are supposed to have a calming effect but environment and diet play a huge part as far as I know. Although I must add that I have no basis for saying that other than general info picked up over the years plus a recent addiction to watching Supernanny.

 

[ClubMan]

Janet/TarfHead - I will sell you bottles of distilled water and sugar XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX containing no active ingredients for €50 a go if you think it'll do you any good.

 

[TarfHead]

Thanks ClubMan
That account of your first-hand experience has been most useful and up to the standard of many of your contributions.

 

[ClubMan]

You asked for informed views. What I posted matches that criterion. Glad to hear that my contribution has been up to my usual standard. Always nice to get positive feedback.

 

[TarfHead]

My intention was 'informed by first-hand experience'. I am aware of the scepticism that surrounds this area.

However, my niece's eczema was reduced by a homeopathic remedy, where 'formal' medicine had not succeeded. This leaves me curious to learn if others have benefitted from other such remedies.

 

[Helen]

My son is attending a homeopath this morning to get some help with controlling emotion and temper.

A friend of mine swears by fish oils ( I can't remember the exact brand name) for calming down her 4 year old. Her daughter can be quite hyper but after a few days of the fish oil supplement, she calms down to an acceptable level and is able to concentrate on school, ballet and is much easier to discipline.

I also spoke to another lady who's son has ADD and says regular adjustments by a chiropractor work wonders for his behaviour.

 

[ClubMan]

Our 6 month old son's slight eczema responded well to regular (5 times a day) moisturisation using Silcock's Base and similar emollient creams (all pretty cheap from pharmacies) and studious avoidance of cats and their hairs/dander once we identified that through a process of elimination as an irritant. This was the standard recommendation from all health professionals and fellow eczema sufferers with whom we spoke. Nobody ever recommended homeopathy and for good reason given that it's ineffectual. As part of the process of elimination we also switched him to goat's milk formula for a few months but having recently switched back to regular (SMA Gold) formula there have been no ill effects. The cat hairs/dander were a real problem though in terms of causing irritation.

 

[icantbelieve]

I know several people who have benefitted from homeopathic treatments and several who tried them to no avail. It seems to very much depend on the individual and even then the efficacy can wear off. A friend is a homeopathic doctor in England and does fairly well with a lot of repeat business.
As for negative experiences, I assume you mean where there was an undesired effect from using homeopathy as no effect would just be nothing rather than negative. In this case, no, I've never heard of anyone trying a homeopathic rememdy experiencing negative effects. However if I were you I'd try homeopathy only after having done a fair bit of research on both the practitioner and then the proposed treatment. If it works great, if not then you are no worse off.

What a closed mind you have clubman, God (or whatever deity you happen to be currently disbelieving in) help you if/when you ever encounter a need for something that can't be a+b=c.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[ClubMan]

What a closed mind you have clubman

I don't have a closed mind to stuff like this. Far from it. I look at the scientific evidence - or lack of it in this case - and draw conclusions from that. I don't set much store in anecdotal claims of success. The problem with things like homeopathy is that some people will "believe" in them and attribute effects to them in spite of the fact that there is no scientific basis or objective clinical evidence to support any claims of efficacy. Encouraging people to "believe" in quack treatments and remedies which clearly have no scientific basis is dangerous and objectionable in my opinion. Even moreso when there is no shortage of charlatans and quack therapists out there who "believe" in it and/or are simply willing to make money off the back of other peoples' ignorance, gullibility or vulnerability. If that opinion jars with others' warm fuzzy feelings and willingness to suspend their critical faculties in this context then I make no apology for it. As Magic Moose says here - "an open mind should not be so open that your brains fall out"!

 

[TarfHead]

.. I look at the scientific evidence - or lack of it in this case - and draw conclusions from that..

My niece has eczema and 'formal' medicine wasn't addressing it. Her mother brought her to a homeopath who advised sellotaping small magnets to her hands at night.

Over the course of a few days, the eczema gradually disappeared from her torso and withdrew down her arms until it had cleared.

She isn't cured, but this remedy is able to address it repeatedly and effectively.

I dropped science as a subject after Inter Cert. and don't normally read scientific reports, so I can't explain if or how the magnets had a causal relationship with the 'behaviour' of the eczema.

But I know it worked which is why I am curious.

"There are more things in heaven and earth .."

 

[ClubMan]

My niece has eczema and 'formal' medicine wasn't addressing it. Her mother brought her to a homeopath who advised sellotaping small magnets to her hands at night.

Over the course of a few days, the eczema gradually disappeared from her torso and withdrew down her arms until it had cleared.

She isn't cured, but this remedy is able to address it repeatedly and effectively.

Read about the regressive fallacy that I mentioned earlier. Don't confuse correlation (i.e. the use of magnets and the easing of symptoms) with causality (i.e. any causal link between the former and the latter). Beware of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

But I know it worked which is why I am curious.

You don't know that it worked. It could have been a spontaneous remission which just happened to coincide with use of magnets. Or it could have been a placebo effect. There are many more logical explanations than improvement being attributable to magnet therapy. When faced with a range of possible explanations the simplest one that is supported by objective evidence is often the most likely. Also - if you are curious then why are you not prepared to take on board the objective, scientific, skeptical views on such matters?

Also - I'm not aware of magnets being a homeopathic treatment so you and/or the homeopathic "practitioner" may be confusing homeopathy with alternative/complementary remedies in general or something? You might want to read some objective information about so called magnet therapy (also here) while you're at it.

Proponents of magnet therapy claim that subjecting certain parts of the body to doses of magnetic "energy" (or fields) has a beneficial effect.

...

No magnet healing product manufacturers have demonstrated scientifically that they actually achieve what they claim, and most cannot even agree on what exactly the magnetic fields do.

"There are more things in heaven and earth .."

What is the significance of this non sequitur? Why are you parroting what icantbelieve it said? Are you saying that we should believe in certain things for which there is no objective scientific evidence based on anecdotal evidence?

 

[icantbelieve]

I know there are lots of charlatans out there which is why I recommended research on the practitioner and the remedy. Of course this applies across the medical spectrum and some people are actually more likely to believe everything a conventional doctor tells them without exercising a healthy level of scepticism.
Clubman the meaning of the quote is fairly obvious surely and once understood turns out not to be a non sequitur at all.

 

[ClubMan]

I know there are lots of charlatans out there which is why I recommended research on the practitioner and the remedy.

If the remedy is homeopathic then the practitioner is by definition a charlatan whether they realise that themselves or not. There's no point in asking people to "believe" in remedies which have no active ingredients and absolutely no objective, scientific evidence supporting claims of efficacy. Even the best will in the world is not enough to make up for the total shortcomings of homeopathy. It is a quack remedy. End of story.

Of course this applies across the medical spectrum and some people are actually more likely to believe everything a conventional doctor tells them without exercising a healthy level of scepticism.

I agree. The problem is that homeopathy does not fall under the realm of medicine/science. It is a belief system with no basis. That's all.

 

[Betsy Og]

The out of hand dismissal of anything that isnt a proven pharmaceutical is one school of thought, but all other viewpoints are not necessarily "for the birds".

Take mental health for instance, some qualfied medics say drugs are not any part of the answer, its all to do with therapy/counselling and life skills, learning to deal with lifes traumas.

Not being an evangelist for either camp I'm inclined to think there is a middle ground in that the very ill need medication, but medicating everyone and leaving it at that is no solution either.

I'm not sure what "homeopathic" encompasses but I do think there is merit in the "holistic" approach to illness - by that I mean trying to look beyond symptoms and not just treating symptoms is more likely where the "cure" will be found.

And if homeopathic cures work then whats wrong with that - even if its only placebo effect sure whats the problem -there cant be a side effect from a placebo so maybe its the ultimate medication.

The 2 caveats I put are (1) accept that theres a chance it may not work and be comfortable with the amount you are spending (2) treat it as a complimentary medicine - if you need drugs to stay alive or functioning then obviously dont discontinue taking them.

 

[redstar]

Hi TarfHead,
I too am curious as to why the improvement is thought to be caused by the magnets.
I hope you don't mind if I suggest a possible way to find out which might help satisfy yourselves somewhat ?

As you say, the eczema is not cured so this means it comes and goes periodically - the only way to know if the magnets are involved in the recessionof her conditions or not is to do a simple test.
a) Record the onset, severity, and recession of the condition with the magnets attached over a number of days.
b) Repeat again without the magnets over a number of days.
c) Repeat the whole exercise at another time i.e the following week or month.
d) The important part - Do the whole exercise again, with something that looks like the magnets but are not magnetic (to allow your niece to think she is wearing magnets). This bit is to counter the placebo effect by checking if she believes the magnets are doing her good, so she is less stressed about the eczema, which in turn might be helping the condition to recede.
During all this try not to comment on whether you think the magnets are working or not, or about her condition. Say nothing about dummy magnets - just tell her they are a new type to try.

Decide on what is defined as a 'significant improvement' for her, and compare to her actual conditions recorded with the magnets on, off and dummy magnets.

If her condition improves significantly corresponding to the presence of the magnets only, then you will know that they do have an effect, which would be great news for her.

NOTE: It might also be more sensible not to do this test if the eczema is always too painful when its full-blown. I would rather not know the result than have her suffer !

In general, I think that there are treatments which work and those which don't, regardless of what we call them (ie conventional, alternative, homeopathic ...). Unfortunately, anecodes are very poor indicators of effectiveness even if it appears to be correct. There are lots of other factors which might cause a condition to recede but anecdotes will not tell us this. Only testing can show if other factors are at work or not.

We expect medicines to be rigourously tested for safety and effectiveness so we should at least expect the same for homeopathic or alternative ones too.

 

[Gordanus]

There is a strong psychological componant to eczema which would be a reason why it responded to suggestion - and/or magnets.

 

[nelly]

As with modern medicine I do think you need to research the person administering and also what they are giving your son - all medicines are chemicals and all chemicals are poisons given the wrong dose. (did a bit of pharma in college). Anyone can set up and sell themselves as a homeopath - now that is alarming to me.
experience: My cousins infant child was treated well with a cream from a GP who also works with homeopathy - as she is an infant i wonder how it can be all in her head? who knows but if it works it works.
Also i have eczema myself. It arrived for the first time in my life believe it or not when i was just after getting married and was in the middle of buying a house so but it went away when i decided to cop on to myself and relax a bit post purchase. I might have been tempted to go alternative if it had continued more than the 6/8 weeks as the conventional medicine option is €50 to see the doc and €20 to get a tube of steriod ointment. If i had a child in the discomfort i was in i would try everything and anything - but not without a basic vetting first.

I wonder how Clubman you feel about acupuncture?

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Let's make it quite clear - there are no negative side effects of homeopathy. There are no effects, postive or negative as it is the simple drinking of water. No more and no less.

The "My Aunty Mary had exzema and now she is better" is how the various snake oil salesmen have sold quack medicines since time began. Try telling the witch doctors that dancing around a fire, doesn't make their patients better. They will have lots of stories of how their patients got better as a result. They conveniently ignore, as the homeopaths do, all the patients who did not improve. Nelly's eczema went away of its own accord. Can you imagine if she had spent a few hundred euro on homeopathic remedies just as the exzema went away of its own accord. She would be singing the praises of the stuff from the rooftops as she would have incorrectly associated it with the homeopathy.

Conventional medicine works very well. Not in all cases, but in most cases. Of course it can't solve all the problems of stress and overeating and smoking and drinking. But it has immeasurably improved our lives over the past hundred years of so.

My favourite quote: The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

Brendan