Finding it hard to get a solicitor to do a switch for me

1. The borrower has good marketable title. - What does this involve checking? How long timewise??
2. The mortgage documentation has all been signed by the borrower. - Flicking through the mortgage offer to check signatures. 20 mins max??
3. The provisions of the 1976 Family Home Act, as amended, have been complied with. - How many provisions? Surely just a checklist?
4. The new mortgage ranks as a first charge on the property to be mortgaged. - How do you check that? timescale??
5. The solicitor is in funds to complete the registration of the new mortgage - A quick phonecall to Bank or check online??
6. The borrower has executed the life policy assignment form. - Solicitor may have to type up a letter of undertaking, 5 mins?? Keep a template

Just curious to get a little more info on the switching process from solicitor side, took me a couple of hours to get payslips, bills, P60 etc together and filling out application form, after that its just checking in with the bank to follow up.
 
mf1 said:
So, I see now why a solicitor would be unwilling to get involved!
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I don't know what you're complaining about @mf1 . Have you not read here it's easy money? All you're doing is giving lots of undertakings to do things that you either can't, or don't intend to do. How could that ever go wrong? You have complete control over every other party in the transaction, so everything happens exactly as and when it should. And the solicitor that did original conveyancing did everything to the letter. And if it does all fall apart, your free PI Insurance will cover you, and you've no professional standards to adhere to....

Brilliant post above on the complexity.
 
"after that its just checking in with the bank to follow up."

I'll never convince you guys that there is anything involved other than making a couple of calls and changing names on Template documents but......................


Lets start at the beginning.

1.Client calls.
2.Client and solicitor discuss fees.
3. Client is horrified at level of fees involved in making a couple of calls and changing names on Template documents but agrees to become a client.
4. Solicitor to send out S.68 letter and checklist
5. Client to do AML and deal with standard checklist: provide Mortgage statement, sign and return Authority letter, confirm if any extensions etc for planning, confirm marital status, provide civil marriage cert,
6. Solicitor applies to take up Deeds- can take several weeks- even longer
7. Solicitor reviews title - each title is different
8. Solicitor receives loan off and mountain of paperwork from lender
9.Client attends solicitors office, they review the loan offer, any special conditions that need to be complied with, borrower signs a mountain of paperwork for the lender
10.Client deals directly with Bank on life cover etc.,etc.
11.Solicitor sends off mountain of paperwork to lender- including undertaking and evidence of PI cover
12.Once all special conditions are complied with, Solicitor applies for redemption figures from current lender
13.When those are in, Solicitor looks for loan funds from new lender
14.New lender thinks of something they forgot to ask for or have now lost
15.That's supplied
16.Loan funds issue
17.Solicitor does searches- judgment, bankruptcy and title searches
If all clear, Solicitor deducts fees and outlays from loan funds
18.Solicitor discharges existing charge and seeks an E-discharge or Vacated mortgage from old lender
19.On receipt, Solicitor lodges new charge for registration.
20. Once that's registered, Solicitor certifies title and sends Deeds to new lender and waits for receipt. File remains open until new lender acknowledges receipt.

In the event that there's another switch before Number 19, start again at Number 8, work through to before 18, pay off loan that has not yet been registered and ask to be released from undertaking.......

And start all over again

mf
 
Fair play for going into more detail MF, my switch was with the solicitor who completed our original purchase 4 years ago so had all the original files so was an easier job as outlined above from no.8 onwards.
My solicitor was very relaxed and easy going so never gave off the impression that switches were a pain for him, even though above reads that it is.
 
Sean Og said:
Balfour as i said earlier my solicitor doesn't want to do too many. He is already doing it for a colleague at work. Your solicitor should do it, it's totally above board etc, all you are doing is taking advantage of the system and the Government and Central Bank are pleading with consumers to switch their mortgages to get better deals. Get your solicitor to do the first switch. Once its completed then tell him not to register the new mortgage because you are switching again, they will have no option but to do as you say. It;s better if they are on your side but if not try another solicitor who might be glad of your business.
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Have u ever thought about how bank protect money used to give loan ? They want security in the form of a charge registered on the title deeds in their name and get Letters of Undertaking from a client solicitor to do that before handing out the cheque and the client sign instruction instructing the solicitor to give that undertaking. Undertaking keep the wheel of conveyancing turning. I am not surprised he does not want to do many. i suspect he got your written instruction to give that undertaking to the bank. if he/she did not he /she is foolish but also putting system upon which conveyancing operates .. letter of undertaking...at risk.
 
would you recommend any specific solicitors for this switching? (my original solicitor was rather expensive)
 
We used our original purchase solicitor to do our switch. €1510 was the final figure but everything was done by post or email.
There are other threads on AAM recommending solicitors charging under €1k for a switch in Dublin.
 
mf1 said:
"after that its just checking in with the bank to follow up."

I'll never convince you guys that there is anything involved other than making a couple of calls and changing names on Template documents but......................


Lets start at the beginning.

1.Client calls.
2.Client and solicitor discuss fees.
3. Client is horrified at level of fees involved in making a couple of calls and changing names on Template documents but agrees to become a client.
4. Solicitor to send out S.68 letter and checklist
5. Client to do AML and deal with standard checklist: provide Mortgage statement, sign and return Authority letter, confirm if any extensions etc for planning, confirm marital status, provide civil marriage cert,
6. Solicitor applies to take up Deeds- can take several weeks- even longer
7. Solicitor reviews title - each title is different
8. Solicitor receives loan off and mountain of paperwork from lender
9.Client attends solicitors office, they review the loan offer, any special conditions that need to be complied with, borrower signs a mountain of paperwork for the lender
10.Client deals directly with Bank on life cover etc.,etc.
11.Solicitor sends off mountain of paperwork to lender- including undertaking and evidence of PI cover
12.Once all special conditions are complied with, Solicitor applies for redemption figures from current lender
13.When those are in, Solicitor looks for loan funds from new lender
14.New lender thinks of something they forgot to ask for or have now lost
15.That's supplied
16.Loan funds issue
17.Solicitor does searches- judgment, bankruptcy and title searches
If all clear, Solicitor deducts fees and outlays from loan funds
18.Solicitor discharges existing charge and seeks an E-discharge or Vacated mortgage from old lender
19.On receipt, Solicitor lodges new charge for registration.
20. Once that's registered, Solicitor certifies title and sends Deeds to new lender and waits for receipt. File remains open until new lender acknowledges receipt.

In the event that there's another switch before Number 19, start again at Number 8, work through to before 18, pay off loan that has not yet been registered and ask to be released from undertaking.......

And start all over again

mf
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In my less qualified opinion, this is a little inflated to be more than it is especially for sequencial moves (concurrent moves is a tricky one for sure). I don't have time to go fully through it now, but on point 6, that only has to be done once, and yes could take up to 6 weeks, but then solicitor will have client deeds and its not uncommon to still have them after 6+ months from drawdown from new bank.

mortgage on a house where buying from somebody elses new build and they have the original build mortgage can be awful. An absolute minefield of things can get uncovered and could have to start resurecting people involved on the job to various types of documents, and if they have emmigrated as a higher proportion of people have done so in building trade, then you have to pay for new certification and clearance works, some of them could entail destructive investigation which brings much unhappiness and costs. Protections for you the client, even small things like reclaiming relevant portion of property tax etc. If you have a good solicitor, these problems can be made to go away for minimum costs and disruption

however, for a mortgage switch on your own property, having the same solicitor will make things much easier for them. they will have the records and there are less regulations at play if there are no changes. I have switched 5 times in 5 years. Its gotten so so easy to switch now. My solicitor doesn't really do anything now its all his secretary which I secretly believe she is actually his boss. OK I've over slimpfied and there are regulatory/banking/industry/legal changes happening regular enough, but in comparison its relatively easy for solicitors that know what they are doing.

I could cut just over half my conveyance fees by using an Irish online company that does it for about 500Eur. But I have a good thing going and they are great to deal with and I know they have my back.

In summary I would say, people shouldn't grumble about solicitor fees. they are professionals and the lowest fee isn't always the best. They are entitled to charge what they want, and certainly using a new solicitor with the amount of work and wisdom required, I would imagine 1500-2000 is quite reasonable in that scenario. Its like an insurance policy, pay a little extra, it might be wasted, but in the event of issues, you will be glad of the cover. But I would expect competitive fees when moving again and staying with the same solicitor
 
Dauhee said:
In my less qualified opinion, this is a little inflated to be more than it is especially for sequencial moves (concurrent moves is a tricky one for sure). I don't have time to go fully through it now, but on point 6, that only has to be done once, and yes could take up to 6 weeks, but then solicitor will have client deeds and its not uncommon to still have them after 6+ months from drawdown from new bank.

mortgage on a house where buying from somebody elses new build and they have the original build mortgage can be awful. An absolute minefield of things can get uncovered and could have to start resurecting people involved on the job to various types of documents, and if they have emmigrated as a higher proportion of people have done so in building trade, then you have to pay for new certification and clearance works, some of them could entail destructive investigation which brings much unhappiness and costs. Protections for you the client, even small things like reclaiming relevant portion of property tax etc. If you have a good solicitor, these problems can be made to go away for minimum costs and disruption

however, for a mortgage switch on your own property, having the same solicitor will make things much easier for them. they will have the records and there are less regulations at play if there are no changes. I have switched 5 times in 5 years. Its gotten so so easy to switch now. My solicitor doesn't really do anything now its all his secretary which I secretly believe she is actually his boss. OK I've over slimpfied and there are regulatory/banking/industry/legal changes happening regular enough, but in comparison its relatively easy for solicitors that know what they are doing.

I could cut just over half my conveyance fees by using an Irish online company that does it for about 500Eur. But I have a good thing going and they are great to deal with and I know they have my back.

In summary I would say, people shouldn't grumble about solicitor fees. they are professionals and the lowest fee isn't always the best. They are entitled to charge what they want, and certainly using a new solicitor with the amount of work and wisdom required, I would imagine 1500-2000 is quite reasonable in that scenario. Its like an insurance policy, pay a little extra, it might be wasted, but in the event of issues, you will be glad of the cover. But I would expect competitive fees when moving again and staying with the same solicitor
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Hi,

I agree with all of these comments. I note you have changed 5 times in 5 years. Can you briefly tell me have you went with 1 year fixed rates in each bank or what type of mortgage for each? Have you been able to switch within 6 months for some banks or did you have to wait one full year before switching?


Thanks,

Eamonn
 
Hi Eamonn,

The rules are not set in stone. They vary quite a bit between banks, notably PTSB requires you to be with previous lender for 2 years (I thinkj I remember), where others will accept you immediately (BOI).

Its all down to building up a good relationship with your mortgage rep. For BOI, It was online/phone and worked great, lady was absolutely fantastic and I felt very supported.

For 1 bank, different staff/branches will have different rules. It can be due to how adverse the rep is, if they are reaching their targets or not, and even their internal relationships with underwriters, their level of training, any past mistakes. All this can swing things either way, for or against.

BOI were very receptive to me as PTSB ripped me off by giving a lower rate to other customers at the time I was finalizing the move with my higher rate. I only found out this was happening about 3 days after drawdown and when I challened it, I was told tough luck. In saying that, PTSB gave me a great deal on overpayments, and their web functionality if fantastic (in comparison to BOI where they have none if you don't have bank account in addition to mortgage account)

Overall its down to fairness, and I had my reasons for moving each time. I could possibly move again, but not for time being and I'm on a great rate with UB.

Banks want our business, but they don't want to get caught out either. This cashback + fixed rate system has become the standard and all banks need to compete this way as people gets stars in their eyes with cashback.

When on fixed rates, I tracked what the break fee (if any) would be, and I got jittery once and paid the break fee ahead of time (couple hundred) just to be sure no surprises the next month when switching - it still was cost effective as I saved by lower fixed than higher variable with my large enough mortgage

Best of luck
 
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