fianna fail just called to my door(brave man)!

A Fianna fail guy has been canvasing in my area,what a time to call!! ,nice guy,dont envy his job at the moment.

A friend of mine is a FF councillor. He's not at all looking forward to the Local Elections. He told me that they take huge heat from constituents when The Government make national decisions that annoy ordinary working people off.

I'll vote for him. He's a friend, a good friend and always willing to go out of his way to help people, including non constituents. But I've told him that if he brings a FF general election candidate to our house next time we're voting in a new government, that the candidate will be sorry he ever knocked on our door.

The other voting options aren't great but I really feel we really need a change of Government. Especially after hearing a few of Brian Lenihan's interviews today.

Lex Foutish said:

A friend of mine is a FF councillor. He's not at all looking forward to the Local Elections. He told me that they take huge heat from constituents when The Government make national decisions that annoy ordinary working people off.

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Why doesn't he leave and go independent?

Any chance the Greens will do the decent thing and walk away and give the people an opportunity to get rid of these buffoons? The Greens are still at 4% and are now in effect, preventing the people have their say.

Am not a fan of the opposition, but I am impressed by R Bruton (FG), R Quinn is there for Labour and has experience of this kind of crisis and a few others would impress. As for Enda, the man has to get some credit for getting FG back onto their feet. This may point at some organisational/diplomacy/negotiating skills that could prove vital. Maybe our electoral decisions have become too personality focussed.

I do feel sorry for the FF councillers, they'll get a grilling at the doors

I agree, with FF as low as 22%, all parties, including the Greens would increase their TDs if an election was called now. The Greens would also benefit from pulling the plug on such an unpopular Government and probably double their TDs. I dont understand what they are doing. If they stay the distance with FF, they will go the way of the PDs.

World Economies are in recession.

People bought houses at inflated prices.

Banks Lent & lent money.

The public sector enjoyed bench marking without improving levels of service & yet people blame government.

cork said:

World Economies are in recession.

People bought houses at inflated prices.

Banks Lent & lent money.

The public sector enjoyed bench marking without improving levels of service & yet people blame government.

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The same government was quick enough to accept credit during the boom - global factors were quickly dismissed then.

The primary function of government should be to plan - not just react. The potential consequences of inflated property prices and excessive lending were well documented during the boom but were ignored by government. You can say that the global crash triggered events but the irresponsible mishandling of what was a very obvious ticking time-bomb is symptomatic of the nonchalance with which FF-led governments have conducted their affairs - taking credit for the positives - blaming circumstance for the negatives.

These guys are priceless. You can't imagine them being tolerated anywhere else.

cork said:

World Economies are in recession.

People bought houses at inflated prices.

Banks Lent & lent money.

The public sector enjoyed bench marking without improving levels of service & yet people blame government.

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I agree 100%.

Governments mirror its people, simple as that. If a majority of people looked in the mirror and judged themselves honestly, they would realise that they wanted the boom, they wanted to spend, they wanted lower taxes and they didnt want to know about long term planning or anything of the sort.

We are all to blame for this mess . . . The sooner we all accept this, the sooner we can work together to get it fixed.

The sudden surge in popularity for the Labour party just shows how fickle many people in this country are. Its only because Gilemore has been attacking FF so aggresively has their popularity risen so high.

I dont mind him attacking FF, but what alternatives has he offered, what long term plan has he to sort out our economy?

It Doesnt seem to really matter at this stage, people are just interested in throwing stones at anybody they can in the hope that it somehow sorts out our country . . .

I want to see Politicians, bankers, builders etc all be accounted for in this whole mess. It doesnt necessarily look like we have found out all thats gone wrong in the Banking Industry but whoever is in charge, we are all going to have to pay for it. This seems to be lost on so many people.

cork said:

World Economies are in recession.

People bought houses at inflated prices.

Banks Lent & lent money.

The public sector enjoyed bench marking without improving levels of service & yet people blame government.

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Our economy should not be in the most desperate state that its in,it would not have been this bad if it had been managed properly.,. How many economys are in the state we are in..
I didnt buy a house
I didnt borrow nor lend
The government hadnt the balls to say no to the public sector.
Who then would you like to blame?
Are you saying that the blame for the total mismanagement of our economy is down to those who bought a house and are now are facing losing their jobs?
I dont know who you call the people who mismanaged our county into the desperate state that its in today,but I call them the government.

thedaras said:

Our economy should not be in the most desperate state that its in,it would not have been this bad if it had been managed properly.,. How many economys are in the state we are in..
I didnt buy a house
I didnt borrow nor lend
The government hadnt the balls to say no to the public sector.
Who then would you like to blame?
Are you saying that the blame for the total mismanagement of our economy is down to those who bought a house and are now are facing losing their jobs?
I dont know who you call the people who mismanaged our county into the desperate state that its in today,but I call them the government.

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Who puts the government in power? This isnt about blaming anybody, its about taking responsibility for the decisions we made as individuals and collectively as a nation.

I would say that we all have to take an element of blame in this debacle. At what stage are people responsible for making their own financial decisions?

Perhaps if I lose my job I will feel differantly, more angry. That doesnt mean I will be thinking straight or coming up with the best way of sorting out the country. If anything it makes us more irrational in trying to understand the problem. All I will want is for heads to role whether they be the bankers or the government . . .

When we were all laughing at Bush destroying the U.S. we werent worried about what our guys were doing. Everybody was looking out for their own interests in the "bertie" years, that was what it was all about. Now everybody knows what we should of been doing and what our government should of been doing!!!

NorthDrum said:

Who puts the government in power? This isnt about blaming anybody, its about taking responsibility for the decisions we made as individuals and collectively as a nation.

I would say that we all have to take an element of blame in this debacle. At what stage are people responsible for making their own financial decisions?

Perhaps if I lose my job I will feel differantly, more angry. That doesnt mean I will be thinking straight or coming up with the best way of sorting out the country. If anything it makes us more irrational in trying to understand the problem. All I will want is for heads to role whether they be the bankers or the government . . .

When we were all laughing at Bush destroying the U.S. we werent worried about what our guys were doing. Everybody was looking out for their own interests in the "bertie" years, that was what it was all about. Now everybody knows what we should of been doing and what our government should of been doing!!!

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I would imagine its the people who voted for them? I was not one of them.
I did and do take responsibility for my financial decisions and decisions I made personaly are not what is causing this meltdown.
some of us were worried,by the wa so speak for yourself!!
To say that all people want is for heads to roll is bordering on laughable,do you not think that that there is a reason why some of us want government/bankers to suffer the consequences of their actions(like you suggested we all should) but it would seem that asking the government to do this is ,to you anyway,is just looking for heads to roll.

thedaras said:

I would imagine its the people who voted for them? I was not one of them.
I did and do take responsibility for my financial decisions and decisions I made personaly are not what is causing this meltdown.
some of us were worried,by the wa so speak for yourself!!
To say that all people want is for heads to roll is bordering on laughable,do you not think that that there is a reason why some of us want government/bankers to suffer the consequences of their actions(like you suggested we all should) but it would seem that asking the government to do this is ,to you anyway,is just looking for heads to roll.

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Sorry mate, you are taking what you want out of my post and skewering it.

Of course I am worried about what is happening at the moment. Some people seem to assume that because I am trying to look at whats happening logically, that I just dont care or feel what is happening. What do you do if your friend is dieing from a shotgun wound and he needs some of your blood? Do you figure out who shot him while he is dieing on the surgeons bed or donate some blood and route out the criminal after he has gotten some element of health . .

Again, this whole "I didnt vote for FF" excuse. I didnt vote for them either, and never have but im not blaming all the FF supporters for the state of the country . . I didnt vote the board of directors on the banks but Im not blaming all the shareholders for the state of the country . . Thats a cop out to say "it wasnt me" as most of us in some way could say that, everybodys a victim .


I think major changes will need to be made, not least on how the whole financial services sector are regulated.

I want all the perpetrators heads to role (I said that in previous posts here) and I want them persued legally. I just think it would be more constructive to focus on how we are going to get things moving again. If anything, why put these fatcats out of their misery quickly, why not let them think they got away with it and then hit them hard . . Would that not be more satisfying . .

The problem is that a majority of people arent interested in getting the economy back on track. They are only interested in sackings and finger pointing.

People are focusing their anger on lynching fatcats as opposed to getting things moving which is why Gilmore is getting so much positive media attention. He has his finger on the pulse.

It is time for Fine Gael and Labour to enter talks with the Greens wrt a bloodless coup. If the Greens could be convinced to pull the plug on FF there is a chance that this country could salvage something from the mess that FF and their mates have created.

I fail to see what an unholy alliance such as FG & the Labour party could bring to the table that would right the wrongs in the Irish economy. Basically the country is on its uppers due to mismanagement by those in charge and greed on the behalf of those who voted them in multiple times. There is little or no viable alternative to Cowen and, however much you don't want to hear it, they're all the same regardless of party affiliation.

Regardless of who is in/comes to power in the near future the country has been sucked-up into a violent maelstrom of global financial instability and individual states will not, on their own, sort it out.

Ireland Inc, is paying the price for greed, corruption and mismanagement. It was bound to happen eventually and now it has to be faced.

csirl said:

I agree, with FF as low as 22%, all parties, including the Greens would increase their TDs if an election was called now. The Greens would also benefit from pulling the plug on such an unpopular Government and probably double their TDs. I dont understand what they are doing. If they stay the distance with FF, they will go the way of the PDs.

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If they don't stay the distance and pull out now, they will still get crucified by the electorate, and will go the way of the PDs.

cork said:

People bought houses at inflated prices.

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You left out the bit about "Inflated by the conspiracy between the banks, the builders and the bowsies (FF)".

cork said:

The public sector enjoyed bench marking without improving levels of service

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Go read the reports of the Performance Verification Groups. All increases were signed off and approved by these independent groups which included many bastions of private industry (Gillian Bowler, Vivienne Jupp etc).

thedaras said:

A Fianna fail guy has been canvasing in my area,what a time to call!! ,nice guy,dont envy his job at the moment.

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I'd nearly break the habit of a lifetime and vote for him myself, just for having the cojones to go canvassing this week!

..but, as we say down the country,"nearly never bulled the cow...

daithi

NorthDrum said:

Sorry mate, you are taking what you want out of my post and skewering it.......

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NorthDrum, have you developed mind reading capabilites - you say that 'a majority of people arent interested in getting the economy back on track. They are only interested in sackings and finger pointing'.

I can't claim such special powers - but I can speak for myself and some close friends and family.We worked hard througout the boom, long hours - week in, week out - for years. I'm not complaining, we have done ok. I am not just 'interested' in getting the economy back on track - I continue to work hard to keep myself and my family solvent, and in my own small way - the economy.

Your analogy:
What do you do if your friend is dieing from a shotgun wound and he needs some of your blood? Do you figure out who shot him while he is dieing on the surgeons bed or donate some blood and route out the criminal after he has gotten some element of health . .

Let me be clear - in such a scenario, I would do everything I could to remove the gun and the gunman first - to stop them doing any further damage; only then would I attend to the wounded.

Cowen et al are the ones who pulled the trigger - we should do everything we can to remove them from office; we can then begin to rebuild.

There is a simple truism in life - 'actions must have consequences' . FF have, through years of incompetence and mismanagement, pushed this country to the brink; they have sowed the wind, and must now reap the whirlwind. I for one absolutely refuse to quitely shoulder the blame for something I did not do; or pay the price for someone elses wrong-doings.....I'm no fool....

thedaras said:

NorthDrum, have you developed mind reading capabilites - you say that 'a majority of people arent interested in getting the economy back on track. They are only interested in sackings and finger pointing'.

I can't claim such special powers - but I can speak for myself and some close friends and family.We worked hard througout the boom, long hours - week in, week out - for years. I'm not complaining, we have done ok. I am not just 'interested' in getting the economy back on track - I continue to work hard to keep myself and my family solvent, and in my own small way - the economy.

Your analogy:
What do you do if your friend is dieing from a shotgun wound and he needs some of your blood? Do you figure out who shot him while he is dieing on the surgeons bed or donate some blood and route out the criminal after he has gotten some element of health . .

Let me be clear - in such a scenario, I would do everything I could to remove the gun and the gunman first - to stop them doing any further damage; only then would I attend to the wounded.

Cowen et al are the ones who pulled the trigger - we should do everything we can to remove them from office; we can then begin to rebuild.

There is a simple truism in life - 'actions must have consequences' . FF have, through years of incompetence and mismanagement, pushed this country to the brink; they have sowed the wind, and must now reap the whirlwind. I for one absolutely refuse to quitely shoulder the blame for something I did not do; or pay the price for someone elses wrong-doings.....I'm no fool....

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Again you are changing the arguement and skewering what I was saying.

I said your friend is on the bed dieing. Taking the gun off the gunman when hes already losing blood doesnt save his life, it might make you feel better about yourself though. In essence your talking about closing the door when the horse has already bolted.

Again you are pointing the finger elsewhere. I dont feel that I am directly responsible for what the government have done but I am ready to take collective responsibility for how to fix it.

Seriously. If you are going to simply try and be smart with pointless posts I will not continue this debate. Do you see many people on Tv, radio in the newspapers doing anything othe then complain about the government and the banks? Now FF figures are down to an all time low and Cowan as taoiseach has record low figures. I would classify that as cold facts that a majority of people believe that the governments head should role.

No matter who is in Government, the important thing is for ordinary working people to make it quite clear that they are not going to carry the entire burden of this crisis while bankers, developers etc get off scot free.

The Govt has done a very good job of pitching public sector against private sector workers, thereby taking attention away from the real culprits. While we were all in the field fighting against each other, the fat cats were scrambling over the walls with bags of loot. I don't mind being asked to contribute my share towards economic recovery. I do mind doing so while fat cats continue to drive around in big cars, take luxury holidays, eat in michelin star restaurants, send their kids to exclusive schools and generally sit back with the attitude that the peasants can take care of the problem.

NorthDrum said:

Again you are changing the arguement and skewering what I was saying.

I said your friend is on the bed dieing. Taking the gun off the gunman when hes already losing blood doesnt save his life, it might make you feel better about yourself though. In essence your talking about closing the door when the horse has already bolted.

Again you are pointing the finger elsewhere. I dont feel that I am directly responsible for what the government have done but I am ready to take collective responsibility for how to fix it.

Seriously. If you are going to simply try and be smart with pointless posts I will not continue this debate. Do you see many people on Tv, radio in the newspapers doing anything othe then complain about the government and the banks? Now FF figures are down to an all time low and Cowan as taoiseach has record low figures. I would classify that as cold facts that a majority of people believe that the governments head should role.

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Who's being smart - I'm being very serious. I refuse to sustain this government by taking collectiive responsibility to fix something I didn't break. It is clear what FF want i.e. to cling to power for 3 more years, and in that time, to dole out brutal medicine to turn the economy around - and then, a year before the next election - start spredding some money around; hope/pray that the global economy has turned the corner - hey presto, FF bounce back - maybe not to current levels - but with enough seats to form a government with some other party.
I refuse to play this game - as I said, they 'sowed the wind' - and I refuse to 'reap the whirlwind' to prop up them up in government.
Of course we will all have to take (even more) pain to get out of this mess - I hope that the people have enough cop-on to ensure that this only happens after we have had an election - so that those governing us have sought a mandate for radical change, and have been elected on that basis. And with any luck FF will be consigned to the opposition benches, or even better -to the dustbin of history.