Fewer Nativity Christmas Cards

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Sunny said:
To be honest I am getting confused. Was the Easter Bunny at the Nativity??
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You need to read your bible. The Easter Bunny brought a chocolate egg which had the babbie-jasus inside. The Lamb of God ate the egg and the babbie came out. It's also the origin of the phrase "Jasus, I'm so hungry I'd eat the hind leg off the lamb of God".
 
Leo said:
Well, first in a Christian context, but like much of Christianity, it was a borrowed practice. Decorating eggs long predates Christianity.
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Well, yes, that's true, and I'm not, of course, suggesting that Christians were the first to decorate eggs. However, the association of eggs with rebirth, resurrection and hence the link with Easter, and its incorporation into popular Western culture as The Easter Egg is (or was originally) a Christian phenomenon.

As an aside, there's nothing particularly wrong with borrowing (or appropriating as the woke would call it) aspects of cultural practices from other societies. It would be a very boring old world if we were all restricted to our own native cultures only.

When it comes to religion, there's nothing new under the sun. New religions borrow from older ones; old religions borrowed liberally from pagan customs and secular society borrows from religion and vice versa. Nothing wrong with any of that, of course, but the problem arises when there is a concerted State (or EU) attempt to suppress a particular form of religious tradition.
 
Nothing wrong with borrowing. Appropriating something and then wiping out the original owners and pretending they never existed. That’s where I’ve a problem. Read ‘The Darkening Age’ by Catherine Nixey.
 
I know lots of Brits from my working days in Bedfordshire and most of my neighbours in Spain are from the UK. Good education of their kids and grandkids is a big concern for them. Nearly all of them have theirs sent to Catholic schools in the UK even though most of them are Church of England. They believe the Catholic schools to be superior to their own. That doesn't mean the kids become Catholic; merely, it means a better education according to the parents/grandparents.

I have no problem with this and most of them have no problem with my beliefs and customs. Like I said earlier I believe in Live and Let Live and I expect others to do the same for me.
 
What is relatively new under the sun is the substantial number of people of no religion, and the even more substantial number of people who believe that the State has no role in promoting or enabling any religion.

I'm not quite sure how you got from the unavailability of a particular style of Christmas card in one shop to ' a concerted State (or EU) attempt to suppress a particular form of religious tradition'?
 
Baby boomer said:
However, the association of eggs with rebirth, resurrection and hence the link with Easter, and its incorporation into popular Western culture as The Easter Egg is (or was originally) a Christian phenomenon.
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The Egyptians were decorating eggs associated with rebirth three thousand years prior to Christianity, they also used them as part of Spring rituals centered around birth and fertility, so with the timing of Easter, the Christian adoption of the symbolism isn't a surprise. Early Christians are thought to have adopted the custom from the Persians, but the popular western culture piece only developed over the last few centuries.
 
Baby boomer said:
Nothing wrong with any of that, of course, but the problem arises when there is a concerted State (or EU) attempt to suppress a particular form of religious tradition.
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Can you point to anything that backs up your view that the EU are trying to do so?
 
Christmas is in fact an appropriation of Saturnalia, the Roman festival of rebirth to coincide with the Winter Solstice, celebrated on the 25th of December.
Christmas trees also commemorate rebirth; the red baubles were originally apples.

No religion in history has been more bloody, ruthless and successful in repressing and then wiping out its predecessor. If in doubt note that there are Jews and Christians in Muslim countries but there are no Pagans (people who worship the Latin and Greek Gods) in Europe or anywhere else. The Christianisation of the Latin world was a tragedy of unprecedented proportions. 99% of all Latin writing and 90% of all Greek writings were lost in the first 300 years after Constantine converted to Christianity. While he said that there would be no compulsion of belief by the time Justinian became emperor 200 years later teaching any Pagan beliefs (that included classical philosophy, Mathematics or science) was punishable by death and the Academy in Athens (the one every other academy is named after) was forced to close and it's last philosopher, Damascius, fled into exile with a small band of followers to Ctesiphon, a city near present day Baghdad and with them died an unbroken tradition of teaching founded by Plato. If you were gay it was worse; by the 5th Century in Rome the punishment for that was to have molten lead poured down your throat.

Christianity set the world back by 1500 years. It caused the destruction of Rome (which is why Gibbon's 18th Century masterpiece 'The History of the Decline and fall of the Roman Empire' was banned by the Church).

So, when it comes to sensitivity about symbols and traditions there is a strong case to be made that the Roman Catholic Church is the last organisation on earth to get bent out of shape about its own ones since just about every tradition they have is stolen , appropriated and drenched in blood.
 
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My kids go to a Catholic primary and secondary school respectively. At primary level, they do their best to encompass all faiths but it is not always easy. The school does put on nativity plays but also vary it around each year for each class so the next year it might be about Santa, year after that about the elves and then kicks back to a nativity the following year. In fairness, they discuss the other main religious festivals as well and they know far more about Diwahli, Eid and whatever else then I did at their age (or know now for that matter). That's pretty standard in most Catholic ethos schools these days at both level. bear in mind the nativity and This post will be deleted if not edited immediately has a part in the Islamic faith as well. I do find it fascinating when the smallest smallie comes home and stats asking me why we don't celebrate Eid as it "sounds amazing"

At secondry, on enrollment night, parents are told in no uncertain terms that it is a Catholic school with a Catholic ethos and if people have a problem with that, it may not be the best school for them. Having said that, they are incredibly welcoming of all faiths, happily fly the Rainbow flag and have their own Amnesty International group and follow the prescribed curriculum. They have a prayer room instead of a chapel and all of the priests/imans etc, can ask to come in and do so from time to time.

My experience (and I fully accept it is not everyones) is that the Catholic schools are often more open to other faiths then people expect and perhaps more open then some other type of schools are in their race to be "inclusive". But that's just my experience. It certainly wasn't the case in the past.

As a manager, working around all of the holidays is a bit of a pain. Ramadan in the summer is a particular issue and on more then one occassion I've had to send people home who were close to fainting from fasting. But we do our best to work around all of this and Ireland is certainly far more welcoming then plenty of other countries I could name.
 
@Peanuts20, one of the first things that made my doubt the whole religion thing was that as a kid I was told that god was love and we heard all the stories in Primary School about what was in essence a Hippy This post will be deleted if not edited immediately. I just couldn't square that with the Biblical This post will be deleted if not edited immediately and the Bible in general and all the intolerance and "Not suffering X&Y to live" and wiping out cities and killing those who were not righteous and all that lark.
That led me to question and of course once that happens it's inevitable that the whole house of cards falls down since, well, there are no answers.
 
If you don't question a belief then is it really a belief or faith or have you been brainwashed? It's the latter that results in people flying planes into buildings. Am I a practising Catholic, yes? Do I agree with everything the Church says, of course not. In the same way as a Corkman I used to give out stink when Donal Og started taking the short puck out. Never stopped my shouting for Cork though.

I'm reminded what Mary McAleese said in her autobiography about the "my God is better then your God" school of theologians after the time she took CofI communion and the non-sensical abuse she got from senior figures in the Catholic Church. There is goodness at the heart but it surrounded by so much nonsense.

I will leave you with this profound theological thought, "Blessed are the Cheesemakers". Always a good foundation for any kind of organised religon in my view.
 
Leper said:
I have no problem with this and most of them have no problem with my beliefs and customs. Like I said earlier I believe in Live and Let Live and I expect others to do the same for me.
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A bit motherhood and apple pie there Leper.

Some people believe that homosexuality is a sin. Let us not talk about Female Genital Mutilation.
 
cremeegg said:
A bit motherhood and apple pie there Leper.

Some people believe that homosexuality is a sin. Let us not talk about Female Genital Mutilation.
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It's ok to believe that homosexuality is a sin. Or morally wrong, to use secular terminology. What's very much NOT ok is to act on that belief by treating gay people less favourably. We are all entitled as a basic civil right to engage in whatever sexual practices we choose, alone or with one or more freely consenting adults, without penalty. That's "live and let live" in a nutshell.

FGM is a barbaric practice carried out by force, without consent, and is a completely different matter.
 
cremeegg said:
A bit motherhood and apple pie there Leper.

Some people believe that homosexuality is a sin. Let us not talk about Female Genital Mutilation.
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I like apple pie and respect motherhood/fatherhood and also I respect the gay community. Just to reiterate I believe in Live and Let Live.
 
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