Feedback from owners of foreign holiday property.

We owned a mobile home in Brittas Bay in the 90's. It was costly. At the time, €2k a year in fees.

At weekends we felt we had to go there to get our value from it. Our teenage children did not want to be there. The action was back in Dublin.

The weather was unpredictable. We ended up using it less and less. In the end we sold it.

I sometimes miss it. My then teenage children are now adults with their own kids and would probably love it now.

Ownership is the problem. It is easier just to book a hotel for a few nights away, costing less than €200 whenever we get the urge for a break in Ireland.
 
@Leper sk of this as it has a higher level of unoccupancy.

From reading your post, I think the root cause for the negativity towards them is the fall in price rather than anything else. Maybe I am wrong here, but this is what I am reading into it. The other stuff, I would imagine, would have been considered to a reasonable degree before the place was purchased - although may have been higher than expected.

Hi Gnf, you can bet your rootin' tootin' bottom dollar that you are 100% correct.

I invested, I did not gain what I thought I would and lost more than I ever thought possible. **it happens, Lepers are not exempt. And unlike our banks I don't expect anybody to bail me out.

Anybody who knows me from my posts here are aware that I post as truthfully as possible. There are those who for some reason or other couldn't tell the truth if they had taken truth **************************.

If I were having a pint with you and discussing the subject whether your kids are school-going or not or not matter how far forward you were planning your retirement, I would not recommend buying a holiday home abroad. But, if you have the reddies to spend, then off you go . . . . . Spain will soak them all up.

Somebody mentioned getting €1200 per week rental in peak times. A centrally located 2 bedroom low rise apartment on the Costas should cost you no more than €650.00 per week during peak season. And that's for a top-of-the-range apartment two minutes walk from the beach, restaurants, and a real supermarket.
 
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I invested, I did not gain what I thought I would and lost more than I ever thought possible. **it happens, Lepers are not exempt. And unlike our banks I don't expect anybody to bail me out.
I guess that is key and the expectation around investment versus lifestyle decision. That said, its very hard to leave an asset unused at times which you could have people renting it, offsetting the costs associated to it

If I were having a pint with you and discussing the subject whether your kids are school-going or not or not matter how far forward you were planning your retirement, I would not recommend buying a holiday home abroad.
Might take you up on that at some stage in the future - but for now we have kind of agreed that its not really for us at the moment. We don't want an 'investment per se' and we would not use it enough in the early years not to try rent it out. But if we go down that route, we feel its neither an investment or a holiday home - so best not to bother.

We also have done some sort of projection on use, and it would be poor enough in general. We are 'travellers' by nature and love going to new and different places, and want the kids to experience this to a degree especially as they get older. We think in ~15 years would be when we would start to get some proper use out of a place like this, but who knows the best location at that stage. Spain may be over-developed and might be better suited to head to Croatia or where ever. Since my crystal ball is broken - we decided its best leave it for now.
 
I can see by the tone of some of the posts here that investing in property abroad is a viable alternative to using the money here. I don't have any qualifications in the field of investment, commerce, accountancy etc. But, if you are seriously looking at purchasing a foreign property here is my advice (and at no charge whatsoever):- Find an online real estate agent selling property where you wish to buy. Follow the agent's ad online and see (a) How long the property is on the market (b) What the asking price is. Reduce the asking price by around 5% and you have an idea of what price people are willing to pay.
 
I'm actively looking at a fairly cheap two-bed townhouse in the Costas. I have a house in Dublin which I intend to let as a house share, and I plan to live in Spain for lengthy periods. It's cheap at around 70K, I guesstimate that the end costs will be in the order of just under 80 K and most of my time will be spent in fairly decent weather. The house share at home will cover the small mortgage, as well as allowing for maintenance, and I don't intend to let the Spanish property. For me, it is a personal decision. I don't have strong connections in Ireland, a friend already has a place there and we plan to move around the same time, so it is a lifestyle choice more than anything.
 
Hi Declan, I wish you the best of luck with your decision. I am not an expert though and you are paying €80K for a property + €10K on expenses. You will probably never get your money back if you re-sell. I know that is not an issue with you at the moment. But, as long as you are happy with your decision is all that matters.
 
I'm actively looking at a fairly cheap two-bed townhouse in the Costas. I have a house in Dublin which I intend to let as a house share, and I plan to live in Spain for lengthy periods. It's cheap at around 70K, I guesstimate that the end costs will be in the order of just under 80 K and most of my time will be spent in fairly decent weather. The house share at home will cover the small mortgage, as well as allowing for maintenance, and I don't intend to let the Spanish property. For me, it is a personal decision. I don't have strong connections in Ireland, a friend already has a place there and we plan to move around the same time, so it is a lifestyle choice more than anything.

Where in Torrevieja (I hope NOT near the Lakes) ?

You have read the previous posts on holiday homes (where I advised "don't do it") and going ahead so good luck with your decision.
 
Where in Torrevieja (I hope NOT near the Lakes) ?

You have read the previous posts on holiday homes (where I advised "don't do it") and going ahead so good luck with your decision.

Near the town and the Habenares (probably misspelled!) . I didn't see you previous post Monagt, can you link to it?
 
The problem with the lakes area is not mozzies as the lakes are salty but rather the general overdevelopment in the Torrevieja area generally, much of which is concentrated at the lakes. DeclanIndublin has made up his mind but would do well to pay heed to Leper and others who caution against purchasing in that area.

My 2c worth would be to advise renting long term first for a couple of years so you get to know the area and become familiar with the true prices in the area. Overall, it's a nice idea and one we might all share from time to time.
 
Thanks Monagt & Slim, I'll bear all that in mind. The place I'm looking at is in Torreta II. It is an old white house
 
Just to add, if Spain is your choice then factor in the lower cost of living.

How much you will save will depend on how long you stay there each year.

I also think that, wherever you decide to buy, you need to like the country.

Try to learn the language and appreciate the culture.
 
Some nice advice there from Sophrosyne regarding Spain. But, be mindful that many Spaniards regard foreign owners of Spanish property as those responsible for the higher cost of homes for them. I can confirm that some Spaniards look on Los Blancos (that's the Brits and us) with some form of contempt who won't learn some Spanish and adapt to their ways.

I love off season Spain when Los Blancos are screaming "Oi, wuy are yew closing this supermarket now?" "Don't yew fink it's time to end this siesta crap?" One thing (from living in Spain) is that you must realize quickly that the Spaniards do what they've done for thousands of years and they won't change. Incidentally, I love the purchasers of property there (i.e. most of us) looking for the Real Spain and then complaining at the unavailability of anything during siesta. Like what happened here we expect the Spaniards in Spain to become more Irish than the Irish themselves.
 
As advised in a previous posting, we've owned a holiday home in France for the past number of years which has worked out very well for us. I've read with interest the various views and in particular the benefits of a hotel holiday where one has the luxury of leaving after 2 weeks care free.

Recently, we took ourselves and our two kids on holiday and stayed in hotels for about 16 days. While we have on occasion, previously used property-exchange sites in the past to travel beyond France, this was our first significant stay in hotel accommodation in many years. It was interesting to compare holidaying in our holiday home versus the hotel holiday experience.

My observation of the main differences are as follows:
Other people:
My intention is not to offend or in any way come across as pretentious, however, the 4* hotel we stayed in was busy. I know it is an obvious point, but the main difference in this hotel holiday experience was having to become used to sharing one's space with lots of other folks when using hotel amenities. Boy does this take getting used to again. The freedom and benefit offered by having one's own space in a private holiday home quickly became apparent and was not something I had actively expected. I now have far more awareness and appreciation for this factor.

Schedules - Your time is not your own
We opted for a half-board type of package. Quite early on, we found this very restrictive and in hindsight it was a poor decision on our part. Breakfast and evening meals were at a set time and was an ugly feeding frenzy, almost trough-like. We found the evening meal time slots very restrictive as we were clock watching a bit early on to ensure we were back at the hotel at the correct times. Additionally, the menu was unappealing and we ended up eating out every pretty much every evening which was expensive and a quite frankly a nuisance having to make reservations for specific times etc. Comparatively, a holiday home allows the freedom to eat when you want and to eat outside enjoying the evening sunshine or to have an impromptu BBQ. Again, not something we had considered until we missed it.

Pool times were restrictive. The hotel also had a public gym which facilitated lane swimming each evening for members. The times were awkward as kids only want to go and play in the pool when it suits them. By comparison, there is a pool with our holiday home so the kids (and friends) are in and out as they please all day and evening. Please note that almost every holiday home worth its salt has a pool in France so its considered standard.

Sleep:
In a word, disturbed. We had requested a "quiet" room located in a quiet part of the hotel when booking and this was confirmed during check-in. With kids we retired early most nights and were woken regularly by one or more of the following: Inadvertent banging of hotel room doors by other guests late and early, phone rechargers being plugged/plugged out/ plugged back in again by guests next door ,sockets being switched on and off at 4am, flushing toilets at all hours. Guest TVs being turned on in the early hours, or at 6am. Guests with too much alcohol consumed arguing (and fighting... I kid you not) which upset our own kids for a few days. Room service banging their room cleaning carts off door saddles, walls and anything else they could find religiously at 7:30 each morning in the hope guests would get up and allow them start their cleaning duties. Having to vacate the rooms to allow cleaning, which for whatever reason could start anywhere from 8am and not finish until 2pm... become annoying very quickly as you effectively had to be out of your hotel room for the entire morning each day... not good when the weather was raining... the amount of noise generated in a shared space took some getting used to. When holidaying in a hotel, you are simply not in control of your environment in any shape or form and your night's slumber is at the mercy of everyone else and their habits. Not a relaxing experience at all.

Cost:
15 nights for Two adults, two kids 4* hotel and pretty much 3 x meals out a day... the cost was eyewatering equating to approximately half the mortgage interest cost (mortgage of €180K @ 3.89%) for the entire year for our holiday home... and this was just for one holiday !! We would simply not considering doing this type of holiday on cost grounds. Its far cheaper to finance and run a holiday home (in France at least) if you are taking 2+ holidays a year using decent hotels. Eating out was very expensive. When staying in a hotel you lose the freedom to supermarket shop and prepare your own meals.

In conclusion, personally, I was surprised by the things we take for granted having a holiday home which we have become accustomed to. This recent hotel experience made me realise that on holiday we value our independence and being able to do what we want, when we want is of real value and importance to us. Ultimately, in our circumstances we could simply not justify the cost of hotel holidays for 2-4 weeks against the freedom offered by our holiday home.
 
Each to their own Alastair but in some warm countries having/owning a swimming pool does not come cheap and its proper upkeep has now quite a lot of legal requirements that were once not needed at all. Pools in (some) countries that are shared on a complex need supervision for certain hours and who do you think pays for that? Filters and pumps need constant monitoring and upkeep, ie, costly, where water is scarce a pool can be very expensive and sometimes are not allowed to be filled at all. These may be of no concern in France, YET, but like elsewhere, it may become the norm. Now, i'm only talking about one item,ie a swimming pool!!!!! There's plenty of other things and all cost little bits and pieces of ones money. These little bits and pieces have a habit of adding up.
 
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Noproblem, France is highly regulated in terms of swimming pool access. There are not many legal requirements beyond an approved cover when not in use and a walled garden/enclosed grounds surrounding the pool area.

The costs of running a pool largely depend on whether it is heated or not. For us (and most modern home swimming pools) they are heated using an atmospheric heat exchanger unit (i.e. Titan heat exchanger). For our location in France we open the pool in June and close it in October. During this 6 month period, we are able to heat it to 26C for free effectively. Filtration systems and pumps are extremely reliable (ours have been running without issue or maintenance for 11+ years). It costs €220 to purchase a good brand replacement pump and ~€80 to have fitted professionally. We test the water quality once every 10 days or so with a kit that costs ~€10 and lasts a full year. We pay for water on a quarterly basis for the house and pool which on average costs < €400 per year in total... and that is with running showers for kids. We purchase Bromine tablets to clean / sanitise the pool which are fed in through the filtration system automatically. This costs max €100 for 6 months with the pool in daily use for 4 of those months. The cleaning of the pool is done with a little robot thing automatically at night so no cost there. We pay a professional service to clean and open the pool at the start of the year and to close it and to winterize it at end of the year which costs €80 each time, so €160 in total.

We have not experienced any notable costs or maintenance issue with running an average size swimming pool. Same issue for our friend who have a similar set up about an hour's drive from our location. As such I don't agree with your view on the costs of running a pool as that does not align to our experience.
 
As I said Alastair, it may not be the case in France and as you say, it's not.
Lots of Irish people purchased in France over the years and hopefully they are enjoying their investment. What's the situation in that country with regard to inheritance? If for example the owner died, does his Irish will suffice for inheritance purposes?
 
Recently, we took ourselves and our two kids on holiday and stayed in hotels for about 16 days.

This analysis isn't really relevant to the topic at hand though, it's an apples and oranges comparison. You need to compare experiences of owning a property versus renting a similar one in the same or different locations.

A poor hotel experience is not a good justification for foreign property investment, just as a good hotel experience isn't a valid reason to sell the family home and move into one.
 
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