Farewell Nigel Farage

Wahaay said:
51% of the voters didn't suddenly develop either a yearning for the Empire or a hatred of foreigners.
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Not suddenly, no.
If anyone thinks that the problems with the delivery of medical services in ageing western countries where medical cost inflation has run at least twice as high as general inflation for decades is down to immigration they are either stupid or racist or both.
If anyone has a similar view in relation to welfare costs then the same applies.
Even the most cursory examination of the facts shows that immigration has little or no net impact on either issue.

It's also true to say that anyone who thinks the problems in health services are down to cuts in spending they are either blinded by ideology or stupid or both.
 
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Nip and tuck.

Purple said:
Not suddenly, no.
If anyone thinks that the problems with the delivery of medical services in ageing western countries where medical cost inflation has run at least twice as high as general inflation for decades is down to immigration they are either stupid or racist or both.
If anyone has a similar view in relation to welfare costs then the same applies.
Even the most cursory examination of the facts shows that immigration has little or no net impact on either issue.

It's also true to say that anyone who thinks the problems in health services are down to cuts in spending they are either blinded by ideology or stupid or both.
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It is also not racist to express the opinion that massively increased immigration is responsible for intolerable burdens placed on ageing medical services which haven't been planned and financed because the demands on those services were unknown due to open-ended migration.
If you were to say migrants should't be allowed to use the services because they're foreign that would be racist.
Smart Remain campaigners - and there weren't that many of them - learned very early on that calling Leavers racist was counter-productive as even many Remain supporters could see they weren't.
Likewise thick, xenophobic and swivel-eyed loons pining for a long-lost Empire.
And persisting in using every legal and parliamentary means possible to overturn a legitimiate referendum result delivered by the biggest democratic mandate in British history - fortunately most of the leading MPs who did lost their seat in the 2019 Election as a result.
Unsurprisingly even today the Irish media persists in showing they haven't learned the lessons that Farage and Boris did a long time ago.
www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/frost-forecast-1.4505644
 
Wahaay said:
It is also not racist to express the opinion that massively increased immigration is responsible for intolerable burdens placed on ageing medical services which haven't been planned and financed because the demands on those services were unknown due to open-ended migration.
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No, but it would be totally inaccurate so if it wasn't due to racism it would be due to stupidity. Therefore people who believe that are either stupid or racist.
 
Purple said:
No, but it would be totally inaccurate so if it wasn't due to racism it would be due to stupidity. Therefore people who believe that are either stupid or racist.
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Or it could be people have a different opinion to you in which case if you dismissed them as either racist or stupid for having it you'd be either intolerant or not the sharpest tool in the box yourself.
Or both, of course.
Such attitudes drove many undecided voters into the arms of Leave, fortunately.
 
Wahaay said:
Or it could be people have a different opinion to you in which case if you dismissed them as either racist or stupid for having it you'd be either intolerant or not the sharpest tool in the box yourself.
Or both, of course.
Such attitudes drove many undecided voters into the arms of Leave, fortunately.
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It's not an opinion; immigrants provide a net benefit to the economy and therefore there is more funding available for GP services etc. If a government chooses not to spend some of that extra resource providing those additional services that the immigrant population will consume that's not the fault of the immigrants.
You can argue about the cultural impact of immigration but arguing that there is a negative net economic impact is factually incorrect.
 
Purple said:
It's not an opinion; immigrants provide a net benefit to the economy and therefore there is more funding available for GP services etc. If a government chooses not to spend some of that extra resource providing those additional services that the immigrant population will consume that's not the fault of the immigrants.
You can argue about the cultural impact of immigration but arguing that there is a negative net economic impact is factually incorrect.
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I haven't argued either of those things.
My point has always been that without conrolled immigration and the ability to plan for it then services rarely keep up with demand - you've only got to look at the National Children's Hospital to see how long and how costly it is to build infrastructure.
Controlled immigration also gives you the ability to decide who comes into your country and what benefit they bring - a skilled Polish plumber or an unemployed labourer from Bulgaria.
It's an immigration system which works perfectly well in most industrialised countries outside the EU without their governments being accused of stupidity or racism.
 
Wahaay said:
I haven't argued either of those things.
My point has always been that without conrolled immigration and the ability to plan for it then services rarely keep up with demand - you've only got to look at the National Children's Hospital to see how long and how costly it is to build infrastructure.
Controlled immigration also gives you the ability to decide who comes into your country and what benefit they bring - a skilled Polish plumber or an unemployed labourer from Bulgaria.
It's an immigration system which works perfectly well in most industrialised countries outside the EU without their governments being accused of stupidity or racism.
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There is freedom of movement within the EU. The net immigration from the EU to the UK was quite small and it has been demonstrated numerous times that said immigration was and is economically beneficial to the UK. Therefore suggestions to the contrary are based on stupidity or racism.
Nobody anywhere suggested that uncontrolled immigration from outside the EU was or is a good idea. It was a nonsense proposition, a strawman argument, propagated by the Leave campaign to stir up fear and emotion among the British population. It worked because it's hard to counter populism and xenophobia and fear with reason and logic and rationality.
Boris tapped into the same thing that Trump did, the Joseph McCarthy did, that fascism and communism did and do. It's despicable and it's dangerous and it divides families and neighbours and nations and it weakens us all.
 
Purple said:
There is freedom of movement within the EU. The net immigration from the EU to the UK was quite small and it has been demonstrated numerous times that said immigration was and is economically beneficial to the UK. Therefore suggestions to the contrary are based on stupidity or racism.
Nobody anywhere suggested that uncontrolled immigration from outside the EU was or is a good idea. It was a nonsense proposition, a strawman argument, propagated by the Leave campaign to stir up fear and emotion among the British population. It worked because it's hard to counter populism and xenophobia and fear with reason and logic and rationality.
Boris tapped into the same thing that Trump did, the Joseph McCarthy did, that fascism and communism did and do. It's despicable and it's dangerous and it divides families and neighbours and nations and it weakens us all.
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Clearly at this point you believe anyone who disagrees with you is stupid,racist or xenophobic.
It was a common refrain amongst the disappointed side during the Brexit saga who rather naively believed that 17.4 million people were all easily hoodwinked by a sign on the side of a bus when they, the proud Remainers, were the intelligent ones.
Faced with such intolerance - and it always comes from those who profess to be the most tolerant - I'll step out of the room, quietly close the door and leave you to your own devices.
 
Wahaay said:
Clearly at this point you believe anyone who disagrees with you is stupid,racist or xenophobic.
It was a common refrain amongst the disappointed side during the Brexit saga who rather naively believed that 17.4 million people were all easily hoodwinked by a sign on the side of a bus when they, the proud Remainers, were the intelligent ones.
Faced with such intolerance - and it always comes from those who profess to be the most tolerant - I'll step out of the room, quietly close the door and leave you to your own devices.
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No, plenty of people voted to leave for other reasons. I'm countering a specific narrative. I'm not suggesting that it as believed by all, or oven most, who voted to leave.
 
Purple said:
The net immigration from the EU to the UK was quite small and it has been demonstrated numerous times that said immigration was and is economically beneficial to the UK.
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The 2018 report from the UK's Migration Advisory Committee confirmed that EU immigrants contributed more to, and took less from the public purse than the natives!

One particular highlight:
There is no evidence that migration has reduced the quality of healthcare.
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Leo said:
The 2018 report from the UK's Migration Advisory Committee confirmed that EU immigrants contributed more to, and took less from the public purse than the natives!

One particular highlight:
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It also says:

" The problem with free movement is that it leaves migration to the UK solely up to migrants and UK residents have no control over the level and mix of migration. With free movement there can be no guarantee that migration is in the interests of UK residents. "

Of course, this is all irrelevant now. The UK has control over its own borders as a sovereign country once more. And Boris has been rewarded with a handsome majority in parliament for delivering this.
Welcome to Politics 101.
 
So they now have the means to solve a problem that didn't even exist, wowser - with wins like that why wasn't it a more convincing Brexit result.

I notice a tendency to continue to sell Brexit, as if Brexiteers are still trying to convince themselves - you won, get over it. Time will tell how things settle down, economically, socially etc., I don't see much point in going on about it now or crystal ball gazing - other than to remain vigilant vis a vis matters Norn Iron. Not in our interests for the UK (in its current or possible future forms) to flounder, so much as listening to Farage, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Francois, Patel et al might sickens ones....palate, I wish the nations well, if they do well we'll do well, and if they don't we'll have to muddle on and continue the refocus away from the UK.

The fact that Boris wins a majority and they're luvvin the Queen, sure more luck to them, wouldn't be my bag but they're the ones that it affects so they must like that kind of thing.
 
Betsy Og said:
So they now have the means to solve a problem that didn't even exist, wowser - with wins like that why wasn't it a more convincing Brexit result.

I notice a tendency to continue to sell Brexit, as if Brexiteers are still trying to convince themselves - you won, get over it. Time will tell how things settle down, economically, socially etc., I don't see much point in going on about it now or crystal ball gazing - other than to remain vigilant vis a vis matters Norn Iron. Not in our interests for the UK (in its current or possible future forms) to flounder, so much as listening to Farage, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Francois, Patel et al might sickens ones....palate, I wish the nations well, if they do well we'll do well, and if they don't we'll have to muddle on and continue the refocus away from the UK.

The fact that Boris wins a majority and they're luvvin the Queen, sure more luck to them, wouldn't be my bag but they're the ones that it affects so they must like that kind of thing.
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I always allow myself a smile when a wordy poster insists " am I bovvered " ...
 
Betsy Og said:
I always allow myself a smile when dealing with a "details" man.....
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And the only detail that really matters in a post entitled Farewell Nigel Farage is that he leaves the stage having achieved his lifetime's goal.
To the applause of millions of people grateful for his efforts.
And there are very few politicians who can say that.
Particularly in Ireland, the land of the BOGOF Taoisigh and no opposition.
 
Wahaay said:
The UK has control over its own borders as a sovereign country once more
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When was it not a sovereign nation?

As far as I know the last time they weren't was when they were conquered by the French in 1066. They accepted their conqueror reasonably quickly after a period of extremely bloody oppression and mass murder of the Saxon population.
 
Oh....statue incoming....nothing surer. :D

Yerrah we're struggling away sure, but you won't find us on UK forums trying to drum up approval for our decisions.
 
Wahaay said:
And the only detail that really matters in a post entitled Farewell Nigel Farage is that he leaves the stage having achieved his lifetime's goal.
To the applause of millions of people grateful for his efforts.
And there are very few politicians who can say that.
Particularly in Ireland, the land of the BOGOF Taoisigh and no opposition.
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I'd take Micheál and or Leo any day of the week ahead of Boris though I'd take Boris ahead of the Child Killers.
 
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