Extra €1 on a box of cigarettes

[Gordon Gekko]

Travelling somewhere abroad mainly to buy cheap cigarettes is kind of pathetic to be honest.

Going out of your way to buy something that kills you.

Insanity meets idiocy.

 

[Forumuser]

i'm more worried about the 50 cent per ml on Vape Juice. I can buy a 100ml bottle now for about €15 so this is going to increase in price 5 fold to €65 !. The government parties will feel my ire in the next election as that's just off the wall. 500% increase in one budget !!!

Can someone elaborate that? My wife pointed that out to me earlier- but I dismissed it as a mistake.
If true, it is a huge price increase.

 

[peemac]

Travelling somewhere abroad mainly to buy cheap cigarettes is kind of pathetic to be honest.

Going out of your way to buy something that kills you.

Insanity meets idiocy.

Unfortunately some people are addicted. So combining a little break or a pleasant day trip to a fantastic city with legally avoiding punitive costs here is what many people do.

 

[ClubMan]

Can someone elaborate that? My wife pointed that out to me earlier- but I dismissed it as a mistake.
If true, it is a huge price increase.

Statement by Minister Chambers on Budget 2025

www.gov.ie

e-Cigarettes (e-liquid excise)​

I am introducing a domestic tax on e-cigarettes on public health grounds as there has been a significant rise in their use. The tax will apply to all e-liquids at a rate of 50c per ml of e-liquid. A typical disposable vape contains 2ml of e-liquid, and costs in the region of €8. This new tax will bring the price of such a product to €9.23 including VAT. Due to the operational and administrative challenges associated with this measure it will not commence until the middle of next year and therefore will be subject to a commencement order.

Vape e-liquid to double in price as tax to be introduced in Budget 2025

A 50c tax per ml means standard bottles used for reusable vapes will now be €5 more expensive.

www.irishmirror.ie

While this means a typical disposable vape of €8 will now cost €9.23, bottles of e-liquid will be significantly more expensive.
...
Currently, a standard 10ml bottle of e-liquid costs anywhere between €3-€5. With the Government bringing in a 50c tax per ml, these bottles used for reusable vapes will now be €5 more expensive.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Unfortunately some people are addicted. So combining a little break or a pleasant day trip to a fantastic city with legally avoiding punitive costs here is what many people do.

Vaping, cold turkey, or nicotine patches are all better options…

 

[MrEarl]

According to the Revenue, approximately 19% of cigarettes consumed in Ireland were bought on the black market.

I love these estimates from Government Departments.....

How the hell do they have even the slightest idea as to what precentage of cigs are bought illegally?

I seriously doubt that criminals don't share their annual sales figures with Revenue, no more than they declare how many illegal guns they've got, to the Gardai etc.

 

[faketales]

I love these estimates from Government Departments.....

How the hell do they have even the slightest idea as to what precentage of cigs are bought illegally?

I seriously doubt that criminals don't share their annual sales figures with Revenue, no more than they declare how many illegal guns they've got, to the Gardai etc.

Historic sales figures? Surveys regarding how many people smoke and how many? Must be a big gap between how many say they smoke and cigarettes sold.

 

[Des Pondent]

Even bigger savings if you are a smoker and spirit drinker going by ferry, plus there’s the advantage of having the car to get it all home.
I went to Wales recently with Irish Ferries, 400 Silk Cut blue was €95, that same 400 in Ireland would now be €360.
4 x 1 litre bottles of many spirits, including Smirnoff for €45.
Lots of people buying multiple 400 packs of smokes.
5 day return for 2 adults with a car was €380.
A day return as a foot passenger, sometimes referred to as a booze cruise is only €67.

 

[peemac]

Vaping, cold turkey, or nicotine patches are all better options…

She's tried them. Turns into a werewolf on steroids. - add in menopause and you know you won't win.

Even bigger savings if you are a smoker and spirit drinker going by ferry, plus there’s the advantage of having the car to get it all home.
I went to Wales recently with Irish Ferries, 400 Silk Cut blue was €95, that same 400 in Ireland would now be €360.
4 x 1 litre bottles of many spirits, including Smirnoff for €45.
Lots of people buying multiple 400 packs of smokes.
5 day return for 2 adults with a car was €380.

Issue there is the limits. It's tax evasion for anything over the duty free limits, so you are limited to 400 cigarettes between two people.

For EU once you can show personal use, they must allow it. They have a stated figure of 800 cigarettes, but that's just a figure where they will not ask any questions. 3 months at 20 a day is almost 2,000 cigarettes.


That's what is happening. This further €1 increase will make such trips even more attractive and the current 15% estimate will keep going higher.

More than a third of cigarettes smoked in Ireland have no duty or taxes paid on them, Revenue finds

More than a third of cigarettes smoked in Ireland last year had no Irish duty or taxes paid on them, new figures from Revenue show.

www.independent.ie

 

[Sarenco]

How the hell do they have even the slightest idea as to what precentage of cigs are bought illegally?

Revenue engage independent market researchers to carry out an annual survey, in accordance with a methodology that is audited by the C&AG.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/documents/research/tobacco-surveys-2023.pdf

The surveys show a very clear trend over the last 15 years - the percentage of cigarettes that are consumed in Ireland without any Irish duty being paid has increased dramatically, to the point that approximately 1/3 of consumed cigarettes fall into this category. This results in a notional loss to the exchequer of some €422m per annum - not small beer.

It seems inevitable that this latest €1 increase will further accelerate this trend and could actually decrease revenue without having any impact on consumption.

 

[Leo]

Very, very few young folks smoke these days. Really only old codgers that are hopelessly addicted are still smoking these days.

The decline in young people smoking stopped in the late 2010s. In the last Healthy Ireland survey 5% of under-18s said they were current smokers. Current rates of smoking are highest in the 25-34 age bracket, with rates declining with increasing age (smokers dropping out of the stats early perhaps?)

Making them prohibitively expensive for children and young adults is a good thing. Few of them are off on multiple foreign hols to stock up cheaply.

 

[Sarenco]

The decline in young people smoking stopped in the late 2010s.

I find that very hard to believe. Can you point me to a source?

 

[Leo]

I find that very hard to believe. Can you point me to a source?

There are many, this has been widely covered in the media in recent years. Here's one study. The HSE link some of it to vapes. The CSO Census & Healthy Ireland Surveys also confirm it.

 

[Sarenco]

Here's one study.

Thanks.

That study suggests that teen smoking fell from 41% in 1995 to 13% in 2015 and then rose to 14% in 2019. I would suggest that 1% difference is mere noise in a survey of this nature - it’s hardly evidence of a trend.

I certainly agree that making cigarettes prohibitively expensive for teens is a good thing.

But there’s a limit.

If increases in duty result in a fall in revenue, without a corresponding fall in consumption, then the increase is clearly counter-productive.

IMO the latest €1 increase falls into that category.

 

[tomdublin]

I've read that counterfeit cigarettes (from China allegedly) can contain all sorts of nasty stuff that make them far more harmful to health than the legitimate ones. But what can you do if you're hopelessly addicted and can't afford weekends away?

Why not switch to vaping? It has nicotine and thus satisfies the addiction, is much cheaper and won't kill you quite as fast as tobacco.

 

[joe sod]

Maybe all the trendiness associated with legalising weed and smoking weed has reversed the trend of reduced tobacco use, once you start smoking one substance it fairly easy to jump back to tobacco.
In any case trying to completely wipe out cigarette smoking is unrealistic, smoking is alot more prevalent in european countries yet their doesn't seem to be the same zeal to eradicate it like there is here.

 

[ClubMan]

Maybe all the trendiness associated with legalising weed and smoking weed has reversed the trend of reduced tobacco use, once you start smoking one substance it fairly easy to jump back to tobacco.

Judging by the aroma out and about and at football matches etc. if the Government legalised and taxed hash we'd probably have another boom time windfall budget next year! And we'd all be much more chilled out.

 

[Leo]

If increases in duty result in a fall in revenue, without a corresponding fall in consumption, then the increase is clearly counter-productive.

Any fall in smoking will result in further healthcare savings and productivity gains. Revenue carried out research into the economics of tobacco in Ireland back in 2011 and they acknowledged there was a point at which increased taxation would result in falling revenue to the state, but that the health benefits justified this.

 

[boomshine]

Disposable vapes are available in clubs, some even with LEDs for the social media posts. I would imagine a much larger % of young people "social smoking" now due to vapes being available from vending machines in local clubs, versus people asking for a cigarette when partying in the 2010's or earlier.

 

[Sarenco]

Any fall in smoking will result in further healthcare savings and productivity gains.

Of course but you’re making the assumption that an increase in duty will result in an automatic decrease in smoking.

I don’t think that holds when no duty at all is paid on a high, and ever increasing, proportion of the tobacco consumed in Ireland.

IMO we’re now at the point where any increase in duty will simply result in a fall in revenue with no corresponding fall in consumption.

In other words, the increase is nothing more than virtue signalling.