Engineers.

Re: Engineer fees

Hello



Re Engineer fees etc, I too am in the Co Cork area, I have FPP on a site and have selected a builder after going out to tender. A friend (AT) did the drawings for me but will not be involved in the building process. The builder's spec is detailed and after checking references, making enquiries etc I am happy to go with him for the job (1900 sq ft house, ground works, septic tank). However I do want to engage an engineer to sign off on the various stages and do any extra site visits. My question is how much should I pay for this service? I expect the builder to do his job (he’s registered for Home Bond) and so do not want an engineer to “live on the site” and supervise everything (this would be nice but I can’t afford it). Am I being unrealistic in this expectation? Is this a reasonable way of going about building the house or am I asking for trouble? Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
Re: Engineer fees

I met with my Engineer at the weekend. I questioned him on the cost for the building supervision phase of Engineering activities. He provided two options for supervision and sign off:
If I use Direct labour - 2500euro (+VAT).
If I use a homebond contractor to build - 1500euro (+VAT).
After his initial billing fiasco (now resolved) i'd think twice about using him again. Although thorough, he did require chasing. In addition I do think that the above costs are expensive enough. I know someone who had a direct labour job (inspected and signed off at stages) for 900 euro. So like everything the price varies. My recommendation is to shop around - get some quotes and ask whats included in for the money? i.e. how many site visits? will he maintain contact with the subcontractors to agree meetings/timings etc.? What I've noticed is that very few people involved in supporting the building industry tend to supply written quotes. So, if possible insist on them, now this is not always feasible so professionals/tradesmen with a pedigree/known in the locality are a better bet. They won't want to sully their good name locally.
 
Re: Engineer fees

Thanks Selfbuilder, they are good guideline prices. I met with an engineer yesterday and he was very vague about price and gave me the impression that I what I was attempting to do was very complicated and costly. I'll talk to him again about it and shop around.
 
Re: Engineer fees

Unless you are building on the moon the Engineer is giving you the usual line. Is your house/site very unusual? Is the house plan very out of the ordinary? If not hes chancing his arm. They are unreal! the same old story with nearly all of them, never give a quote and chance their arm with a bill after the job is done. Shop around - I found asking friends/friends of friends what they did/paid for different activities gave me the best idea of what the going rate should be.
 
Re: Engineer fees

As much and all as I'd like to join you on that high Moral ground, with the current options in front of me:- saving a deal of money or allowing myself to give it away, I think I'll take the former. Unfortunately, in whats increasingly becoming 'chance your arm' Ireland, what goes around.... looks to be keeping the country going round.
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If your agreement with this cowboy involves an element of under-the-table cash payments, then it will be 'tainted by illegality' and therefore may not be enforceable if you ever have to pursue him through legal action or otherwise. You effectively could lose all your consumer and other rights under the deal.
 
Re: Engineer fees

Why would I need to pursue him at a future date?
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Well, seeing as you seem to have paid him upfront, and the initial application has been rejected, if he did a runner at this stage you would need some mechanism of redress. I'm not saying that this issue is necessarily relevant or in any way likely to arise but it remains valid anyhow.

If I choose to pay the balance of his fee in cash it will not impact the fact that I have already a fee paid via cheque.....
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No - but there is nothing to stop him from taking your money in cash and denying he ever received it from you. On the other hand there is nothing to stop you refusing to pay him the cash remainder, in which case he would have absolutely no comeback. Again unlikely on either front, but possible at least in theory

Its pretty obvious that you are not involved in the building trade.
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How did you figure this? Anyway, does it matter. My only contribution here was on a point of contract law.

Unfortunately Cash is King in the industry... however pretending that it does not happen and that the vast majority of people operate in this way is simply ignoring reality.
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Where did I do this?
 
Re: Engineer fees

As a self builder (nearing the end Thank God!) it has to be said the building industry is like no other. There is one main reson for that at the moment I think. For tradesmen the Celtic Tiger is still roaring. All trades I have used said " it will be at least 6 weeks before I can get to you" this turned out to be true plus some weeks in many cases. Until the tables turn on these guys i.e. work is less plentiful I am afraid self builders are forced to settle with - nothing in writing to form a contract - offering cash as an incentive - paying over the odds - waiting weeks just for a price on a job - huge mobile bills (none of them ever answer or ring back) - not being able to enforce Health & Safety measures - Question = How many self builers out there ever saw a tradesman on your site wearing a hard hat ??

I look forward to the day when these guys need every job they can get - I think I will build another house especially so I can dictate the rules of the game.........
 
Engineer to oversee build

Hi.... if I were to have a house built (either a builder or Direct labour) & give that I would be uninitiated in terms of building processes & practices...I would require an engineer to oversee to construction to ensure correct materials are being used, the building meets required standards in terms or construction methods, insulation etc & to ensure that there are no short cuts being taken.

How much does an engineer charge for these services typically & how do they derive their charges ie is it on a per sq ft basis etc?

ninsaga
 
Re: Engineer to oversee build

Hi Ninsaga, I have just started a contract build and have an engineer for overseeing stage payments (they come out and look after each stage and give the go ahead for mortgage payments). This will cost me approx €1000 plus VAT. However, this does not include any additional visits - should any arise. If you are going for a relatively straight-forward house and have a good reputable builder (contract build) you should not require too many other visits. However, if you go the direct labour route and do not have much experience yourself you will require a good bit of help (even for your own piece of mind). Some engineers will not take on a direct labour build. Ring around a few in your area and put your proposal to them, they should be able to give you guide line prices. All the best with it.
 
Re: Engineer fees

Hi

I see a lot of items arising regarding construction professionals fees.

I work for a reputable engineering firm and can enlighten some of you regarding fees.

For structural/civil design of a 'one off' house (say 175-250 sq m range) expect to pay about 2% of the contract sum for the building. i.e if you can get it built for €100,000 (imagine!!!) then the figure would be 2000.

The contract sum includes foundations to finished house and all items in between.

What you should get for this is drainage submission to accompany Architects planning submission, organising triall holes/site investigation, Structural drawings showing sizes of foundations, walls (block strengths), joist sizes, steel or concrete beams, General arrangement drawing for each floor and roof, review of roof manufacturers drawings. Fee also includes for construction specification and provision of 'Opinion' on compliance with building regs (structure only) at end of job. (No guarantee that the builder will build to spec!!!)

About 5 site inspections would be included in this fee at foundation, ground floor, 1st floor, walplate level and roof level.

Expect to pay about €250-300 per visit for additional visits (if requested by Arch, builder etc).

The fee also includes for meetings with the Architect (which may take place without your knowledge). Usually about 3-4 would be required for a large, one off, complicated house.

Based on Dublin prices for 200m2 at 1500/m2 the build cost is about €300000.
2% = €6000+VAT.

Note that these rates apply to new build only with Architect also employed.

In all there is about 50 hours work included. Works out at €120/hour. Compared this to medical/legal/financial fees per hour I think this is quite reasonable considering the expertise employed and the insurance overheads etc.

As an aside, the min fee for any job would be about 1500.

Expect to pay about 8% overall cost of the job on professional fees. 4-5% to Architect, 2% to Civil/Structural engineer, 2% to QS.

Finally, your house is probably the largest investment you are ever going to make, be sure to get a competent team on board. You will be looking at the results for the next 40 years!!!
 
Re: Engineer fees

Good post, MHSpurs, it's good to hear what's involved from the other side. And I wish I'd had someone like you on my build (i.e. someone who was prepared to be straight with me up front.)

Would you be willing to travel to the NW for an opinion on a renovation/extension :)
 
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