Electric Cars - a ridiculous product

Electricity to be rolled out to rural Ireland I hear.

Have had lots of free charging in the 18 months, never got any free diesel while I slept

Went to Cork and Back mid march overnight for work on less than 10 euro for fuel

filled at home got to cork easily from Dublin no problem
passed lots of charging options on the way.
B&B charged me 5 euro to plug in flat fee

Next day drove work then home on one charge, with 100km left once home.

no way a diesel is beating that less than €10 for 510 km trip.
 
Frank said:
Electricity to be rolled out to rural Ireland I hear.

Have had lots of free charging in the 18 months, never got any free diesel while I slept

Went to Cork and Back mid march overnight for work on less than 10 euro for fuel

filled at home got to cork easily from Dublin no problem
passed lots of charging options on the way.
B&B charged me 5 euro to plug in flat fee

Next day drove work then home on one charge, with 100km left once home.

no way a diesel is beating that less than €10 for 510 km trip.
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Okay but my 2015 5 series cost me €18,500 in 2020 and is probably still worth €14,000 so the depreciation is around €1,000 a year.
I drive around 25000 Km per year so my fuel cost is around €2,500. With road tax and servicing my total cost is around €5,000 a year.

What does your car cost per year including depreciation?
 
It’s like inventing a tennis racket that purports to be more environmentally friendly and is more expensive with less residual value, but which won’t last five sets.

“My matches never go to five sets” yell the people who’ve been duped into buying EVs and don’t want to admit their mistake. Of course there are also people whose motoring habits are limited and for whom it’s not that bad.

Please tell anything about EVs that’s superior to ICE vehicles.

I’d also like to know what happens during power cuts…you walk everywhere? What happens in the long term carpark of the airport when you’re going on holidays? What happens if you want to AirBnB somewhere that doesn’t have a charger. There are too many holes in this product versus an ICE vehicle.
 
Purple said:
Okay but my 2015 5 series cost me €18,500 in 2020 and is probably still worth €14,000 so the depreciation is around €1,000 a year.
I drive around 25000 Km per year so my fuel cost is around €2,500. With road tax and servicing my total cost is around €5,000 a year.

What does your car cost per year including depreciation?
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id say 10k is a lot closer to what its worth looking at donedeal now, prices on older stuff has dropped a lot.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
It’s like inventing a tennis racket that purports to be more environmentally friendly and is more expensive with less residual value, but which won’t last five sets.

“My matches never go to five sets” yell the people who’ve been duped into buying EVs and don’t want to admit their mistake. Of course there are also people whose motoring habits are limited and for whom it’s not that bad.

Please tell anything about EVs that’s superior to ICE vehicles.
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i have a q8 etron, compared to a q8 ice, its cheaper, faster, better looking (IMO) and has more interior space. So the only thing going for the ICE version is range, that i dont need, we drive about 15,000km per year and public charge once maybe twice.
 
Purple said:
Okay but my 2015 5 series cost me €18,500 in 2020 and is probably still worth €14,000 so the depreciation is around €1,000 a year.
I drive around 25000 Km per year so my fuel cost is around €2,500. With road tax and servicing my total cost is around €5,000 a year.

What does your car cost per year including depreciation?
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Yes depreciation is a concern

Only have it 18 months, always kept cars about 3 years or so in the past, being my only ever new car expecting a big drop alright,.
guessing probably 6 to 7k per year, but no crystal ball.

New car v old car depreciation is a different story though, not EV specific.

Am I right in thinking a new 5 series is now 70k plus for a pretty ordinary spec?
 
Blackrock1 said:
i have a q8 etron, compared to a q8 ice, its cheaper, faster, better looking (IMO) and has more interior space. So the only thing going for the ICE version is range, that i dont need, we drive about 15,000km per year and public charge once maybe twice.
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Lovely car.

At the moment the depreciation card is a worry, not happy myself but will acknowledge it.

Some interesting secondhand prices on etrons, even the 55's
 
Frank said:
Lovely car.

At the moment the depreciation card is a worry, not happy myself but will acknowledge it.

Some interesting secondhand prices on etrons, even the 55's
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thanks, ill worry about depreciation when i go to change it, there has been price drops on a lot of cars as well so cost to change is of more interest, enjoying driving it for now!
 
Blackrock1 said:
i have a q8 etron, compared to a q8 ice, its cheaper, faster, better looking (IMO) and has more interior space. So the only thing going for the ICE version is range, that i dont need, we drive about 15,000km per year and public charge once maybe twice.
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That’s a nice car and it suits you, but when assessing the merits of one product vs another in an overall sense, you have to try and separate your own individual circumstances from the overall market’s. Driving decent distances is a common requirement for people. Which is why I think plug-in hybrids are a very clever idea, the best of both worlds.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
That’s a nice car and it suits you, but when assessing the merits of one product vs another in an overall sense, you have to try and separate your own individual circumstances from the overall market’s. Driving decent distances is a common requirement for people. Which is why I think plug-in hybrids are a very clever idea, the best of both worlds.
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its overplayed gordon, the average annual mileage stats will tell you that.

i absolutely accept that there are people for whom EVs arent suitable, people who dont have home charging, or someone who routinely travels over 400km.

There are also lots of people for whom EVs are eminently suitable and they are still buying new ICE cars. Mostly because of lack of information and misinformation.

2 of my neighbours have the RR P400e plug in hybrid, both have had untold trouble with it, in their scenario it has been the worst of both worlds, extra complication of a dual drive train and the ICE component unsuitable for a 2.5 tonne SUV.
 
Blackrock1 said:
its overplayed gordon, the average annual mileage stats will tell you that.

i absolutely accept that there are people for whom EVs arent suitable, people who dont have home charging, or someone who routinely travels over 400km.

There are also lots of people for whom EVs are eminently suitable and they are still buying new ICE cars. Mostly because of lack of information and misinformation.

2 of my neighbours have the RR P400e plug in hybrid, both have had untold trouble with it, in their scenario it has been the worst of both worlds, extra complication of a dual drive train and the ICE component unsuitable for a 2.5 tonne SUV.
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I just don’t accept that an EV with all of the restrictions that it brings is a superior product to an ICE vehicle. I accept that for some people, it can work, but it cannot do as much as an ICE vehicle.

To distill it down to one sentence, it’s the total flexibility of an ICE vehicle versus the relative inflexibility and restrictiveness of an EV.
 
Blackrock1 said:
i absolutely accept that there are people for whom EVs arent suitable
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There is nobody for whom an ICE vehicle is unsuitable. That’s the salient point and the nub of why EVs are an inferior product.

One works in certain circumstances, the other works in all circumstances.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
I just don’t accept that an EV with all of the restrictions that it brings is a superior product to an ICE vehicle. I accept that for some people, it can work, but it cannot do as much as an ICE vehicle.

To distill it down to one sentence, it’s the total flexibility of an ICE vehicle versus the relative inflexibility and restrictiveness of an EV.
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its only an issue for you if you need the range, if you dont its not. Most people don't. i havent found an ev in any way restrictive in 4 years of ownership and we dont have an ICE back up.
 
losttheplot said:
EV, if it's charged, no issue with a power cut.
Petrol / Diesel, if there's fuel in the tank, no issue.
Fuel pumps at service stations use electricity. So a prolonged power outage, everybody is walking.
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Exactly - and how often do power cuts happen these days? I can count on one hand the number I remember over the past decade and they were only for very short periods. As you say, if we have a long outage then there will be a lot more to worry about than EVs.

We don't all live in Dublin and in many areas (even small/medium towns, not just rural spots) there are no late night petrol stations, so if you need fuel after 10pm you are goosed. Home chargers and public chargers are available 24/7.
 
Having to stop to buy diesel was a pet hate of mine back in the day, especially when some of it splashed and you'd be left with the stink for ages.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
There is nobody for whom an ICE vehicle is unsuitable. That’s the salient point and the nub of why EVs are an inferior product.
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They are unsuitable for children. Whatever about range anxiety, depreciation, interior design - EVs radically reduce local air pollution.

All of us deserve better air quality but it is especially important for developing lungs and brains. Anyone with children can attest to the swarms of ICE cars sitting idling outside schools, particularly in winter. Each car spewing out particulate matter and pollutant gases. And smaller children are much closer to exhaust level so they get even greater exposure.

In an ideal world children would walk/cycle/Luas etc. The reality is that a lot of parents want/need to drive, so the quicker we get rid of ICE cars the better.

And for those who are fiscally prudent, respiratory disease costs the state hundreds of millions per year...
 
arbitron said:
They are unsuitable for children. Whatever about range anxiety, depreciation, interior design - EVs radically reduce local air pollution.

All of us deserve better air quality but it is especially important for developing lungs and brains. Anyone with children can attest to the swarms of ICE cars sitting idling outside schools, particularly in winter. Each car spewing out particulate matter and pollutant gases. And smaller children are much closer to exhaust level so they get even greater exposure.

In an ideal world children would walk/cycle/Luas etc. The reality is that a lot of parents want/need to drive, so the quicker we get rid of ICE cars the better.

And for those who are fiscally prudent, respiratory disease costs the state hundreds of millions per year...
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The emerging evidence of the harm air polution was causing was one of the reasons I decided to switch to a vehicle with zero exhaust emmisions. Finding that that car I bought was a better car in almost every way was just a bonus.
 
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