E6.75 for a glass of wine. Rip off?

[Purple]

I was in the newly renovated bar and restaurant in The Ardenode Hotel last week. A group of us were waiting for dinner and I went to the bar and ordered a club orange and a glass of white wine (Pinot Grigio). I was charged E9.25 for both drinks. E2.50 for the orange and E6.75 for the glass of wine. We all agreed that it was an absolute rip off and voiced our opinion to the bar manager. We then cancelled our table and went elsewhere. I've since spoken to several people who also agree that it is way to much for a glass of wine. (The bottle in question was E30). Isn't an average price E4.50 -E5.50??

I'd guess you'd get 6 glasses max from a bottle of Pinot Grigio. Therefore they make €40.50 on the bottle rather than €30. That's an extra €10.50. However the bottle might not be used so you would have to allow for wastage. There is also a labour cost in supplying wine by the glass, extra glasses used etc. So €6.75 per glass, while on the high side, is not a rip off (or an excessively high price).

In my opinion a major cause of what people think of as our “Rip-off” culture is the low prices that people see in Spain and Portugal. I have attached a list of minimum wage rates for some western countries below. The figures given are for gross monthly income, without overtime, for someone on the minimum wage. Therefore the disparity is greater than suggested below since out direct taxes are much lower than most northern European countries. The % of people on the minimum wage is also important (in Spain it’s over 10%) as is the distribution of wealth.
What really matters as a measure of how expensive things are is purchasing power (Big Mac index, Starbucks coffee index etc). If you look at that then Ireland is not that expensive.
Personally I would rather live in a country that tries not to economically disenfranchise it’s poor, even if that means a glass of wine is a bit more expensive than it might be.

International comparison of monthly statutory national minimum wage rates, January 2003 Country

Luxembourg
1,369 260
Netherlands
1,249 237
Belgium
1,163 221
France
1,154 219
UK
1,105 210
Ireland
1,073 204
USA
877 142
Spain
526 100
Portugal
416 79

Source: Eurostat.

If you look at here you will see that we are ranked 8th out of 22 in a European study of real purchasing power. That would lead me to conclude that there is no real "Rip off" (or more correctly, profiteering) culture in Ireland. I agree with ClubMan’s definition of a rip off and think that the phrase is used far too loosely.

 

[ashambles]

Ahh pedantry - isn't it great...

"Rip-off" is just slang and as such the definition will be loose and subject to regional variations.

http://www.answers.com/topic/rip-off

Lists various definitions from overpriced product to theft, some sources give only theft as their only definition.

But by judging from people posts here the current Irish usage agrees more with using the word as describing an overpriced product, and uses stronger words for more serious deception.
With a slang word like this there's little point in telling everybody they're wrong - the current usage is always the correct usage even when you don't like it.

 

[ClubMan]

In fairness, Clubman's gripe seems to be about what he sees as inappropriate or careless use of the term "rip off". As far as I can see, the nub of his argument is that there is a big difference between something being expensive and something being a ripoff.

Precisely. No matter how often people do the Alice in Wonderland thing and try to redefine "ripoff" to mean "high prices" I will disagree. If some people find that pedantic then that's their problem not mine. They are free to overlook my posts (see my signature). I object to the personal attacks on me earlier in this thread and they are obviously in breach of the posting guidelines. As ever when I am attacked in this way I will leave it to another, more objective in the context, moderator to deal with them. Feel free to challenge my opinion just don't get personal.

 

[ClubMan]

I love these threads.

I don't - but I'm like a moth to the flame and can't help myself. Ignorance and gross misuse of language just irks me I suppose.

 

[ClubMan]

To dissect the posters comment in such a riducusly anal way is worrying from an administrator IMO it adds nothing to the discussion and is juvenile.

And what do these personalised comments add to the discussion then? Personally I find name calling much more juvenile than somebody merely challenging others' opinions and setting out their own arguments.

 

[Cahir]

€6.75 isn't hugely expensive for a glass of wine, particularly in a hotel - although I'm not sure what part of the country the Ardenode Hotel is in so maybe it's seen as expensive for there.

Just be thankful you got a glass from a proper bottle instead of one of those crappy little quarter bottles.

 

[ClubMan]

Re: E6.75 for a glass of wine. Rip off??

it should be but isn't always, i know of a number of venues that the prices are not listed on a wall as they should be by law or in the form of a menu either.

Yes - lack of price lists on display is in breach of the law. Certainly in public bars - I'm not sure about private venues/ballrooms etc. Either way the lack of a price list should at least alert people that they might want to check the prices in advance of making a purchase. One way or another you either accept the price and make a purchase or reject it and go elsewhere. If you accept the price then there is no ripoff (unless you are missold something - e.g. given Dutch Gold when you actually ordered Erdinger or something like that). If you make a purchase without even checking the prices then that's your own problem.

 

[bankrupt]

Precisely. No matter how often people do the Alice in Wonderland thing and try to redefine "ripoff" to mean "high prices" I will disagree. If some people find that pedantic then that's their problem not mine. They are free to overlook my posts (see my signature). I object to the personal attacks on me earlier in this thread and they are obviously in breach of the posting guidelines. As ever when I am attacked in this way I will leave it to another, more objective in the context, moderator to deal with them. Feel free to challenge my opinion just don't get personal.

I have always used the term "rip-off" to also mean "excessively expensive," i.e. not just in the sense of a scam or wholly illegal activity. I regard the expression as slang so don't believe that it has a completely fixed meaning as ClubMan does. Looking it up on a few websites reveals that others share this view too:

http://www.answers.com/topic/rip-off
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/phrasal-verbs/rip+off.html

[broken link removed]

Wikipedia goes so far as to declare that a rip-off is not a scam (I disagree with this interpretation):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip-off

There are of course also plenty of sites that have the same narrow definition as ClubMan (i.e. a scam/illegal act). Perhaps we need another term?

 

[Sunny]

To dissect the posters comment in such a riducusly anal way is worrying from an administrator IMO it adds nothing to the discussion and is juvenile. It was oblivious to people the point the poster was making.

Where are you getting your def of Rip-off? What you are describing is stealing IMO.

What % of people in Ireland today check a price list at a bar pre-ordering!

A taximan debating so called 'Rip Off Ireland'! Alot of people consider taxi fares unfair especially lugguage and airport charges (not anymore I know) and would use the words 'rip off' to describe them. Is this fair use of the phrase? (Apologies if you are not actually a taximan!)

Clubman is right. There is no harm drawing attention to these places that charge higher than normal prices and then leaving it up to indivduals if they are willing to go there and pay it. If you do pay it, who can blame the business for charging that price.

 

[ClubMan]

And what do these personalised comments add to the discussion then? Personally I find name calling much more juvenile than somebody merely challenging others' opinions and setting out their own arguments.

Taximan apologised to me by PM for the earlier personalised comments so I am happy to accept that and put it behind us.

 

[daltonr]

Ignorance and gross misuse of language just irks me I suppose.

Clubman, your views on the definition of the word is widely known, and you've made this point repeatedly. Now for the sake of ending it once and for all, can you explain to everyone who disagrees with you...

On what logical grounds can you argue against a particular usage of a word, when that use of the word is commonly accepted slang that virtually everyone (including you) understands.

I understand why you don't like the word, you want everyone to stick to one narrow meaning. Of course your meaning, like most other words originated in slang, and became popular and accepted. Perhaps we shouldn't be using Rip-off to describe exploitation, since that was once slang.

You also agrued against the use of the word scum to describe a certain portion of the population. This is also slang, and is as easily understood as any other word in the english language.

As a result of you focusing in on whether or not slang is acceptable in AAM threads, every argument about excessive charges turns into a thread about slang.

Can you accept that your views on slang and language constitute a letting off steam issue. You could start a Letting Of Steam thread about the use of slang, and let people who use slang in their common speach get on with discussing the things they want to discuss. You can even make your anti-slang thread a sticky if you want.

You are not going to single handedly roll back the evolution of the english language, and why should you be able to. A common and widely accepted, and documented use of the word Ripoff is excessively priced or poor value. Is fighting that really the most worthwhile use of your intelligence and energy?

Would you tolerate a normal AAM poster dragging every thread about a particular issue off onto the same tangent that has been rehashed again and again and again?

I'm sure there is a poll feature on this BBS. Set up a poll to see if this new definition of rip-off is acceptable to the majority.

-Rd

 

[ClubMan]

Clubman, your views on the definition of the word is widely known, and you've made this point repeatedly. Now for the sake of ending it once and for all, can you explain to everyone who disagrees with you...

On what logical grounds can you argue against a particular usage of a word

See my repeated posts on this issue.

You also agrued against the use of the word scum to describe a certain portion of the population.

Did I? When was that? I don't recall.

As a result of you focusing in on whether or not slang is acceptable in AAM threads, every argument about excessive charges turns into a thread about slang.

When/where?

Can you accept that your views on slang and language constitute a letting off steam issue.

Why are you diverting this thread about alleged ripoffs into one about my views on language?

Would you tolerate a normal AAM poster dragging every thread about a particular issue off onto the same tangent that has been rehashed again and again and again?

See above.

I'm sure there is a poll feature on this BBS. Set up a poll to see if this new definition of rip-off is acceptable to the majority.

We (the moderators) deliberately decided early on after the move to vBulletin not to enable the poll feature.

 

[ubiquitous]

This thread has run its course. Time to close it??

 

[daltonr]

> This thread has run its course. Time to close it??

Agreed. A couple of simple questions and the only answer was more questions. You're not going to get anywhere with this thread.

-Rd

 

[bankrupt]

See my repeated posts on this issue.

I am genuinely curious as to why you insist that "rip-off" cannot also mean "over-priced." I did do a search but have only found posts from you giving your definition rather than your reason for having such a rigid view.

I don't understand why you think differing definitions of this slang term can be considered "gross misuse of language?"

B.

 

[car]

I hear the renovated ardenode is quite celubrious, I may be wrong on this as its been a while since I was there, but AFAIR theres nowhere within walking distance for an alternative.
If the prices are high because the hotelier is trying to get as much profit out of customers as possible, and his prices are exceeding a "value for money based on quality of surroundings" argument etc, then can he be adjudged to be "ripping off" the customers who are restricted from going elsewhere due to location and so have no alternative but to pay his prices if they want to drink wine?

This is despite the OP saying he did leave and go elsewhere.

 

[orka]

This thread has run its course. Time to close it??

But the thread as originally intended hasn't run its course. All the OP wanted was a discussion on whether 6.75 is expensive for a glass of wine (did anyone genuinely think it was about being overcharged compared to a list price?) and instead he had his english usage criticised.
I don't know the hotel or where it is but I wouldn't consider E6.75 madly excessive and have happily paid more in the past. But fair play to the OP for talking with his feet (too slangish?) if he felt it was overpriced for the wine quality and the standard of the hotel.

 

[ragazza]

Gosh, to those who dont think that 6.75 is expensive for a glass of wine, I think I've lived in spain too long! Here you would get a bottle of very nice crianza for that price, and a reserva for not much more.

I was in a bar here last week with my brother, and ordered 3 glasses of wine. The bill came to E4.50 and my brother could not believe that that was the total price and not per glass!

If I drank wine at 6.75 a glass it would stick in my throat, knowing I could have similar quality in nice surroundings for a quarter of that here.

 

[Cahir]

Gosh, to those who dont think that 6.75 is expensive for a glass of wine, I think I've lived in spain too long! Here you would get a bottle of very nice crianza for that price, and a reserva for not much more.

I was in a bar here last week with my brother, and ordered 3 glasses of wine. The bill came to E4.50 and my brother could not believe that that was the total price and not per glass!

If I drank wine at 6.75 a glass it would stick in my throat, knowing I could have similar quality in nice surroundings for a quarter of that here.

True, but there's a huge excise duty on wine here and none in Spain, have a look here for 2005 figures

 

[ragazza]

True, but there's a huge excise duty on wine here and none in Spain, have a look here for 2005 figures

Yes, but at the end of the day what you personally are paying is much more expensive for exactly the same product!
Whether the money is going to excise duty or mark-up in restaurants - the end result is that the product is (very much) more expensive, which is why I couldnt enjoy it the same way.