Duties of a godfather

[Sol28]

To be honest I think it is so selfish of you to withdraw your son from communion class and not allow him to make his first holy communion (despite the hypocritism of baptising him into the faith but then changing your mind) What you should do is allow him to make his sacraments - communion and confirmation - and then make up his own mind as an adult about what he wants to practise. You are ramming your own views down his throat by force? You don't agree so therefore he has to be different from the rest of his class? You disapprove so you are using your child to make your stand? He is your son and you are not giving him his religion and allowing him to choose.
If I was your sister I would withdraw my offer but certainly in your case I can't believe you would go ahead.
When your son is an adult and maybe tells you that he felt ostracised as a child because you didn't allow him make his communion (a huge part of the school year for him this year in class) and that he doesn't know why you used him to make your point and then became a godmother the same year, well I hope you have some answer for him then.
I'm truly sorry if this all seems very harsh but I am in shock at using your son to make your point. My parents had many kids, we all had the sacraments and then as adults decided for ourselves whether to go to Mass or not.

What a heap of....... :mad:

He does not have a religion - He was indoctrinated into a church when he had no choice. Why not let him learn about all religions, and if he should choose to become a member - let him make his communion and confirmation as an adult.

I applaud Ali. More parents should be like her. if you are not there to guide them through a church - why let them be a member without family support.

 

[MrMan]

What a heap of....... :mad:

He does not have a religion - He was indoctrinated into a church when he had no choice. Why not let him learn about all religions, and if he should choose to become a member - let him make his communion and confirmation as an adult.

I applaud Ali. More parents should be like her. if you are not there to guide them through a church - why let them be a member without family support.

He wasn't indoctrinated, you still have a choice as to whether you baptise your child or not.
You can applaud Ali but also realise that has agreed to be another childs guide through Catholicism as Godmother. fizzelina has a point there when it does come time to explaining why his mother took two very different stand points for two different children.
Communion is a time when kids enjoy the day out and the dress up but alot of kids also take on board the message which is taught throughout the year and that can be no bad thing. Praying for the sick, needy, poor etc.
Kids don't really get into the whole pros and cons of the church and they won't be brainwashed as a result of making their Communion so what harm in letting them enjoy the year thats in it?

 

[TarfHead]

To be honest I think it is so selfish of you to withdraw your son from communion class and not allow him to make his first holy communion (despite the hypocritism of baptising him into the faith but then changing your mind)

+1

If this is a matter of moral conviction, then why not withdraw from paying income tax in protest about the way the Government are squandering money in the bailout of the banks ?

If not, why not ? Cos it might get you into actual trouble, instead of a hypocritical wishy washy gesture to salve your liberal conscience ?

And using a 7yo as your weapon of choice ?

 

[Sol28]

you still have a choice as to whether you baptise your child or not.

Unfortunatly with our school system you dont have much choice. All non-religious parents I know still baptise their children just to get them into the local school in a few years (and to appease their parents).

Communion is a time when kids enjoy the day out and the dress up but alot of kids also take on board the message which is taught throughout the year and that can be no bad thing.

Kids don't really get into the whole pros and cons of the church and they won't be brainwashed as a result of making their Communion so what harm in letting them enjoy the year thats in it?

Surely this is two conflicting thoughts - "Why not dress them up and give them a day out - Some might get the religious aspect - but kids dont really get the religion."

If its truely for religious point of view - well what has the clothes and the cards and the MONEY got to do with it anyway. Should it not be as down-played as First Confession? If its for the day out - well why not just say that - and forget about the church part. If the family is not religious - there is no way they should be taking part of the ceremonies for the day out. If they are religious and follow the rulings of their church (whatever flavour of it) well then let the children be a part of it.

But in reality - how many parents who bring their little darlings to Communion actually believe in and follow the teachings of the church.

 

[TarfHead]

Unfortunatly with our school system you dont have much choice.

Huh ? In an Educate Together school, it doesn't arise. In a National School, children who have not been baptised are not excluded from the preparations for the Sacrament. I was through this with my son's year in 2009 and am starting into it once more with my daughter's class, in preparation for next year. And, in one of those 'you couldn't make it up' scenarios, the parents who made the biggest fuss about the Day Out included those whose children had not received the Sacrament.

But in reality - how many parents who bring their little darlings to Communion actually believe in and follow the teachings of the church.

Irrelevant.

Parents do many things that they don't truly believe in, for the sake of the children. When they're old enough, the children can decide for themselves. Until then, the parents have to be parents and provide an example.

 

[Caveat]

You're going to stand in the church and promise to reject Satan and pledge to guide your godchild in religion

Seriously, back out
You are a hypocrite, well you will be if you do it

Are you realy going to take those vows? You shouldn't take a vow lightly

I took these vows and didn't take them seriously at all.

Impossible to do so as I'm agnostic.

I was flattered to be asked to be a godparent, but made it clear beforehand that on my part it was purely symbolic and that whatever was said during the service meant very little to me and that in practice, the child shouldn't rely on me for any kinfd of "religious guidance" but that of course, I would be there for them in whatever other capacity I could.

On the three occasions I have done this the parent barely batted an eyelid.

 

[Sol28]

Huh ? In an Educate Together school, it doesn't arise. In a National School, children who have not been baptised are not excluded from the preparations for the Sacrament.

I meant that in most Irish towns as it currently stands - the schools are run by religious orders. If you are not of the faith - you do not get preference for enrollment. And with oversubscribed schools in most towns - if you have not been baptised you may have trouble being enrolled originally.

Religion needs to be taken out of schools altogether. Let there be time set aside for members of religious orders to run classes for people of their faith, but the school itself should not be dominated by any one religion.

Parents do many things that they don't truly believe in, for the sake of the children. When they're old enough, the children can decide for themselves. Until then, the parents have to be parents and provide an example.

What sort of example is it when the parents dont follow the church's rules in their day to day lives? They may lead good healthy lives - but unless they are going to attend Mass on a sunday, and every other rule that their religion proposes, how can they lead the child by example on the religious faith.

As for the duties of a godfather - I declined, despite being flattered - but I could not pretend that I would guide the spititual needs of a child. i would accept a role as mentor for a child - and would happily be there for them to guide them through tough times. But my own disillusion with the church would not have let me stand on the alter on behalf of a child.

 

[JoeB]

Everyone who goes along with the Catholic church is implicitily condoning their actions, .. i.e supporting decades of organised child abuse.

Does anyone think that if This post will be deleted if not edited immediately was here today that he'd defend the actions of the current pope and heirachy?

I think everyone accepts that This post will be deleted if not edited immediately would likely use the 'c' word... i.e he'd condemn the actions of the Catholic Church over the last five centuries.


I wouldn't bother with the godfather thing...

 

[callybags]

Everyone who goes along with the Catholic church is implicitily condoning their actions, .. i.e supporting decades of organised child abuse.

This is nonsense. That is akin to saying "anyone who has a bank account condones the actions of the banks" or "Everyone who votes Fianna Fail in the next election condones corruption".

The actions of a minority cannot be held against the majority.

 

[JoeB]

I disagree to an extent.

If someone chooses to have their newly born children baptised then they are supporting the Catholic Church, and implicitly condoning their actions. People could choose not to baptise their children. I'm astonished that anyone would even consider having anything to do with the church, they clearly covered up and supported systematic child abuse.

And adult abuse too... many women were devastated by the church telling them that their stillborn children could never experience God.. (i.e limbo, now gone for some reason)... this was physcological abuse of adults.

People who have bank accounts are in some way responsible for the actions of the banks. If there were no customers then the banks would close... unless of course the government kept them open.

Keep in mind that the government like to say that drug users are the cause of crime gangs... which ignores the fact that it's drugs prohibition that is the root cause of crime gangs.


If everyone boycotted the Catholic Church then they'd lose power and disappear.. wouldn't that be great? I for one would be dead happy, they belong in the 3rd century, not the 21st. Does anyone here actually believe that God and the Devil are real?.. any more real than the Tooth Fairy?

 

[TarfHead]

I came across this line in an article in today's Guardian, and thought it relevant to this thread.

Many middle-class parents would prefer to quietly negotiate a labyrinth of shabby moral compromise while pretending their hands have been tied by the system

 

[MrMan]

I disagree to an extent.

If someone chooses to have their newly born children baptised then they are supporting the Catholic Church, and implicitly condoning their actions. People could choose not to baptise their children. I'm astonished that anyone would even consider having anything to do with the church, they clearly covered up and supported systematic child abuse.

And adult abuse too... many women were devastated by the church telling them that their stillborn children could never experience God.. (i.e limbo, now gone for some reason)... this was physcological abuse of adults.

People who have bank accounts are in some way responsible for the actions of the banks. If there were no customers then the banks would close... unless of course the government kept them open.

Keep in mind that the government like to say that drug users are the cause of crime gangs... which ignores the fact that it's drugs prohibition that is the root cause of crime gangs.


If everyone boycotted the Catholic Church then they'd lose power and disappear.. wouldn't that be great? I for one would be dead happy, they belong in the 3rd century, not the 21st. Does anyone here actually believe that God and the Devil are real?.. any more real than the Tooth Fairy?

Choosing baptism is choosing catholicism and not an indication that you agree with the men running the church.

Your logic suggests the following; Joe bloggs has abused children in the past, his mother and father are aware of it, but his 5 brothers are not and the parents hide the matter from family and friends. News then comes out about Joe and the fact that his parents covered up his actions. Cue public outcry and the Bloggs are scum and nobody should be associated with them. Not exactly fair on the innocent 5 brothers who knew nothing and had no part in any crime.

 

[Niall M]

Slightly off the topic, having twins in Feb. do i have 2 sets of godparents or just one set?

 

[MrMan]

its probably easier on the godparents to have two sets in terms of presents etc down the line.

 

[JoeB]

Choosing baptism is choosing catholicism and not an indication that you agree with the men running the church.

Your logic suggests the following; Joe bloggs has abused children in the past, his mother and father are aware of it, but his 5 brothers are not and the parents hide the matter from family and friends. News then comes out about Joe and the fact that his parents covered up his actions. Cue public outcry and the Bloggs are scum and nobody should be associated with them. Not exactly fair on the innocent 5 brothers who knew nothing and had no part in any crime.

Why not choose a different Christian denomination, that isn't so big on child abuse?.. for example, the church of England, Protestantism,.. or one of the American evangelical churches?

Why not simply live a good life?

Of course your example isn't fair.. but is the church accepting responsibilty now for the abuse in the past?.. it certainly doesn't look like it, the pope won't even accept resiginations and he refuses to condemn the actions of senior members of his church.

What about the Brazillian mother who was ex-communicated from the church for seeking an abortion for her 9 year old raped child? The church took no action against the rapist. Sick or what?

 

[MrMan]

Why not choose a different Christian denomination, that isn't so big on child abuse?.. for example, the church of England, Protestantism,.. or one of the American evangelical churches?

Why not simply live a good life?

Of course your example isn't fair.. but is the church accepting responsibilty now for the abuse in the past?.. it certainly doesn't look like it, the pope won't even accept resiginations and he refuses to condemn the actions of senior members of his church.

What about the Brazillian mother who was ex-communicated from the church for seeking an abortion for her 9 year old raped child? The church took no action against the rapist. Sick or what?

The law should take action against rapists for a start. The church has its views on abortion and they don't always make the right or the popular choice (not mutually exclusive).
To say the church is big on child abuse is pretty ignorant to be honest.
Do you think that only catholic priests are capable of child abuse? Do you think catholic priests who are paedos only abuse catholic children?

You do realise that if you have children the most likely people to abuse them are within your family and close circle of friends.

I'm catholic but i don't hold much interest on what the pope or priests in general have to say. I don't believe that men are incorruptable so therefore even an organisation that is supposed to do good like the church has a major flaw, it is run by men.
I like to think that the underlying message of the faith is a good one and by ignoring it completely we will become more cynical and detached as the years go by.