DunLaoghaire Rathdown Co.Co. - shysters.

You do realise that the impact of your actions will affect your fellow citizen, your grand-children & my children, and not those nice people over at DLRCoCo, don't you? You don't inherit the earth from your parents, you borrow it from your children.
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Used to think that way. Used to preach that gospel. No longer give a toss.
Honest to goodness when you see the way the environment is treated globally, nationally and locally despite years of popular uproar about rain forests, strip mining, industrial waste, etc, etc, etc. Do you really think my contribution to saving or ruining the environment actually makes a difference.

Don't give me the "If everyone thought like that" line. If every individual citizen cleaned up their act considerably your grandchildren would still inherit a s***hole of a planet from the people who actually do the really dangerous polluting.

I no longer give a toss about your great great grand children or mine for that matter. I'm going to do my best to enjoy life get rich and pass on some money and common sense. If they can figure out a way to get pollution sorted out good for them.

Apart from fooling yourself into a sense of moral superiority being a do-gooder does no-good whatsoever. Other than of couse falling for the Placebo that the government has handed you that they are interested in tackling waste.

Sorry for the selfish tone, But heh!
Show me how your good deeds are really changing the world and I'll start listening.

-Rd
 
It's not the selfishness of your tone that worries me, it's the selfishness of your actions and the impacts they will have that worries me. I've never claimed that recycling a few empty Chardonnay bottles will save the rainforests. To use this as an excuse not to take responsibility for your individual actions is a cop-out. You seem to imply that there is an either/or choice between responsible management of your own waste and getting rich/enjoying life. It's not an either/or choice - you can do both.

Consumer action/control/responsibility is a hugely positive step. As well as having a real, immediate impact on our landfill problems, it brings home awareness of the global issues you mention.

Assuming that your "don't give a toss" attitude translates into polluting actions, with no disrespect intended, I'd suggest that you do move to the US at your earliest convenience or stay there if you are already there. You'll be happier and Ireland will be cleaner. Get a job with an oil company or a tobacco firm - I hear they pay a premium for the "don't give a toss" attitude.

Your American grandchildren can use the money you leave to them in your will to buy themselves a nice holiday to nice, clean Ireland for some fresh air.
 
Rainyday, I know what you are saying and I'm not off to the USA yet. A couple of points though;

I work in the plastics industry and while I know that there are advances made in recycling all the time, Tetrapaks are regarded in the industry as the worst of the worst when it comes to recycling. The problem is the layered construction of paper and plastic. So I have my doubts about your link and how realistic this recycling is on a widescale basis.

With regard to Repak, it was established "voluntary agreement between Industry and the Department of the Environment and Local Government", so okay, maybe not a government body but not completely independent either.

I don't think I have the wrong end of the stick and I don't object to doing my bit but I really feel that we are being taken for mugs and that a more "top-down" approach should be adopted in the elimination of packaging.

Rebecca
 
The last load of banchmarking payments come through today. Roll on more local charges to pay fore them.
 
You seem to imply that there is an either/or choice between responsible management of your own waste and getting rich/enjoying life. It's not an either/or choice - you can do both.
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I'm not implying that at all. I recognise that there is a choice. I choose not to pour engine oil down a drain or dump it in the street. I choose not to burn tyres in my back yard. I choose not to throw litter around the streets. I choose not to throw McDonalds bags out my car window, or spit chewing gum in the street.

But I also choose not to give a toss whether the rubbish I dump in my kitchen gets recycled, dumped in a land fill, or incinerated. Of course I could seperate it out, pay to have the green bin taken away, but given a choice on how I deal with household waste, I'd ignore the state provided waste disposal and throw all my waste in black sacks and take them to a land fill myself. My point is I don't believe this has a significant enough detrimental effect on the environment (in the grand scheme of things) that I should adopt any different way of disposing of waste.

As with all things in this state our Waste Disposal schemes are not about the environment it's about Revenue. As a discerning consumer it's a product/service that I don't feel provides value for money.

As for your remarks about the States, you've really got a lot to learn if you think Ireland is clean. I have never seen so much as a sweet wrapper in a Florida car park, whereas last Sunday I was treated to the sight of a syringe with needle still attached in Blackrock Dart Car Park.

Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of Dublin. I'll show you things to make you change your mind. (We don't have to hold hands if you don't want).

Ireland is Filthy and getting worse. I'm not the one doing the littering or the polluting. Turn your attention to the people who really cause the problem and stop lecturing those of us who are having virtually no effect on Ireland future cleanliness or filth.

If your great grand children live in Irish filth it won't be my fault, and frankly since noone else (especially the government) seems to care, I really don't see why I should give a toss.

-Rd
 
If you look here on parklanes link it's good to see that an outsiders view of this country can still be positive.
 
Guys, how about laying off the personal bits about everyones grandchildren . . . it's not adding to the discussion.

In terms of tetrapak, I think most people agree that it is a bit of a curse from a disposal and recycling point of view as MissRibena points out. It is made in such a way that separating it into its constituents is probably more costly than simply dumping it and manufacturing a new one.

So the solution is . . . stop buying products packaged in tetrapak. Maybe some people won't be able to get their favourite juice for a while (because it only comes in tetrapak) but that's not a big deal.

Producers only produce things in tetrapak because they have consumers who are willing to buy it. If people don't buy it then the producers will change the packaging to something more suitable. OK, so it's not going to happen overnight, but if people don't make the move then the producers will never move.

z
 
But why should I have to wait, either to drink my favourite juice or for the environmental benefit of packaging change to filter down to the manufacturer? Why doesn't the government cop on and incentivise the more environmentally sound packaging now? There is no reason to wait for market forces and a process of elimination to send the message. There is no reason for us to be faffing about with the pros and cons of the environmental cost of driving to a bring centre versus putting them in the regular bin.

And anyway, what exactly am I supposed to do: buy a two litre container of milk, although I don't need it and throw the second litre down the drain. It simply doesn't make sense.

Rebecca
 
Guys, how about laying off the personal bits about everyones grandchildren. it's not adding to the discussion.
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I don't think Rainyday or myself have anything specifically against each others nonexistent grand children. It's just a way of referring to future generations in general.

The question is whether being a "good" citizen and recycling actually makes a damn bit of difference to future generations when you consider the kind of polution caused by Industry that doesn't receive nearly as much government attention and is actually facilitated through schemes like Repak.

It reminds me of the fad for buying A4 refill pads made from Recycled paper. You don't see so many of those any more because people copped on that Paper is not made from Rain Forrests it's made from trees grown specifically for the purpose. You might as well say the Sunday Dinner is ruining the Potato Forrests.

Putting the "Recycled" logo on the front of the A4 pads was a marketing exercise, not an environmental one. A couple of gullible people fell for it for a while. Perhaps some people still do. Paper Making is one of the dirtiest industry we have. It creates huge amounts of Waste. The Trees used are so insignificant in terms of environmental impact that it's a juke anyone ever worried about it.

BTW Much of the so-called recycled paper was nothing of the sort. It was made from trees just like all the other paper. It happened to be made from materials that would otherwise have been discarded whem making "normal paper", but it sure wasn't made from old paper, and you still needed to cut down trees to make it.

When it comes to the environment, industry and government the public are treated like Mushrooms, kept in the dark and shoveled S**t. So it makes me mad to have people come on here and lecture us all about how we should "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle". Yet another case of spending money on PR and Marketing rather than on tackling actual issues.

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" will do about as much for future Irish generations as "A Mars a day helps you work rest and play" did. Unless it's aimed at the actual polluters instead of using it to squeeze revenue out of individuals like you and me.

-Rd
 
missribena - I don't understand why you think you should have to throw stuff out simply because it is not supplied in tetrapak. I can buy milk in 1/2, 1 & 2 litre containers - either tetrapak or PET.

I agree that the government should be doing more to give industry a reason to reduce the amount of packaging they produce, but that does not remove my any onus from me as an individual to reduce my packaging waste also.

Last time I checked society was made up of individuals *and* government.

z
 
rd- it may make you sad to think you have people coming on here to lecture you, but it honestly makes me very sad to see a number of posters here adopt what looks very like a "I don't give a goddamn about the rest of yis, I'm living for today and to hell with the future, the neighbours, the rest of the people in the city & country" approach.

It really seems very negative. I don't see how society can be improved following that logic - there never seems to be a point at which somebody with that view will alter course. One of the few things that can cause someone to alter their course is for government intervention - introducing charges for landfilling and recycling for example.

z
 
Zag, where I live, you can only get 1 litre tetrapaks. 2 Litres come in PE (I'm fairly sure it's not PET for milk, but would need to check). I live alone. A litre of milk/juice etc. goes a long way.

I'm sure I could get in my car and drive 20 miles for a bigger choice but that makes even less sense.

Rebecca
 
Btw, I completely understand where daltonr is coming from. Our government is too weak-willed to take on businesses or take any kind of decision without employing a raft of consultants/comittees etc. Simple, cost-effective, straight-forward solutions are ignored all the time and less and less is achieved with a cost of more and more.

I'm not about to take the jetplane to the States yet and I continue to do my bit but I'm majorly fed up and feel like a mug a lot of the time. And when I raise the issue people either don't care or are happy to go on blinkered to the wider picture or tell me that I'm being too lazy/negative by insisting that the government are getting us to do what we employ them to do. I could easily see a time when I get just as fed up and disillusioned as daltonr.

Rebecca
 
It really seems very negative. I don't see how society can be improved following that logic
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I am saying that my actions are having so little impact on the future that I don't care about it. Just like I don't care about the insects that hit my bumper when I drive. In the grand scheme of things I don't care if you dump your rubbish in a land fill, or recycle it, or if it's incinerated. I DON'T CARE. It doesn't matter.

The TINY positive impact of individuals separating out their waste into Green and Black bins so insignificant that it's a joke to be debating it. It's just deflecting attention from the actual issues that will impact on future generations.

If you care about future generations then get angry about those issues. Stop getting sucked into the propeganda that individuals are the problem. Yes not buying Tetrapak is a good idea. But for the most part once you've bought it the supplier no longer cares and whether put it in the green bin or the black bin has NO IMPACT on your grandchildren.

Yes I've become very selfish compared to what I was a few years ago. Bcause I've
seen the time wasted by good people acting as foot soldiers for Poitical Parties or Environmental Causes. The occasional effective person makes a difference, like for instance the people working on Prime Time Lately. For the rest it's so much wasted time and energy that could be spent enjoying life.

Of course if people enjoy the campaigning etc that's a different matter.
If you enjoy separating out your waste then go for it, have fun. If you like
paying MORE to dispose of it in a way that makes virutally no difference then go for it. I won't stop you. Like i said.... I DON'T CARE.

If you toss it over a gate or dump it in the street I will care. But Properly Run Landfills are acceptable to me.

-Rd
 
I have a question. Who or what is responsible for destroying the rain forests?
 
Mostly it's people wanting to turn the land into Farms. In Brazil that's certainly the cause. There's big money in being able to "Claim" land. Extremely poor people in Brazil's cities are seeing the possibility to make a living (a hard one perhaps) by working the land so they move out of the cities and set up camps.

The wood does get used in Furniture. Rain Forest Timber tends to be good for that...Mahogany, Rosewood etc.

So there's a dual incentive to the locals to get rid of the Forests. The Cleared land is more valuable to them, and the timber that the clearing produces is valuable in itself. Deforestation pays for itself and then keeps on paying.

Incidently if Ireland had Rain Forests they would be getting cleared right now too and getting turned into Appartments. Let's not all get on any High Horse about the Brazilians. If the envorinmentalists are willing to put their hand in their pockets and raise some people out of poverty then you might be able to do something. But simply wringing your hands and refusing to buy a mahogany table isn't going to make a damn bit of difference.

That's why I laugh when I hear people whine about the rain forest on one hand and then complain about immigrants on the other. The only way you'll protect sensitive areas of the planet is by moving poor people away from them so that survival doesn't depend on stripping the natural resources.

This is what I talked about earlier when I spoke of needing to tackle the bigger issues, because ignoring those issues makes a mockery of Joe Bloggs separating his waste.

-Rd
 
I live in Blackrock. This week and two weeks ago Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Co. Council failed to collect the black bins from our road. Despite paying them a fixed charge.
I swear that there has been an increase in bluebottles in the area.
The latest I hear is that they are removing some litter bins from public areas. They say it is because people are dumping household rubbish in them. I wonder.....
 
While I disagree with almost everything RD says, I have to confess that I laughed out loud twice at his writing while catching up on this thread this evening. Not sneering laughing - real giggles at his genuinely clever writing. Methinks the man is wasted in the IT business.

But to Rebecca & RD - It's really a catch-22 situation. Why should the Govt to anything serious about waste as long as you guys aren't prepared to act yourselves? Time for a bit of leading by example.

Hi Parklane - Is the bin removal story real or one of those shaggy dog stories? Where did this happen?
 
While I disagree with almost everything RD says
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You're not the first. Genius is rarely understood in it's own time. But years from now when the're building a motorway through Newgrange and they find the AskAboutMoney scrolls, a monument will be built in my honour.

But to Rebecca & RD - It's really a catch-22 situation. Why should the Govt to anything serious about waste as long as you guys aren't prepared to act yourselves? Time for a bit of leading by example.
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Woah! Hold on there pilgrim. If you think back I said I *USED TO* think like you. I used to preach the "Borrow from our chilren" gospel. I even thought Recycling would make a huge difference to the future. I don't anymore. Why would I persist in an approach with negligible impact on the future while the government made it more and more expensive to "do the righ4t thing".

I found a cheaper, easier (for me) way of dealing with waste. Dump it all in black sacks and drive to the land fill. Your damn government gave me the idea. I've long advocated on this site that governments should use taxation very carefully to engineer the type of society it wants. This government could care less about society it uses taxation to create the kind of economy it wants.

Well fine, ignore society, get your booming economy, but don't come crying to me when the public don't "do the right thing".

The Green Bins should be Free. If this stuff really is getting recycled then you can keep the revenue from that. Beyond that the state should use the money it collects from Black Bins to subsidise the Greens Bins. If there isn't enough revenue from the Black Bins anymore then great, your plan worked. Keep subsidusing the Green Bins from taxes on industry waste (which there will still be pleanty of).

-Rd
 
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