Dublin City Council consultation on extending the 30 kph speed limit

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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Dublin City Council has launched a consultation on this.

As a cyclist, I am not sure that it's a good idea.

If you make everywhere a 30 kph zone, you are not distinguishing between the areas where it's essential and the other areas.

I would say limit it to where it's really necessary but then enforce the speed limits without mercy. If someone is doing 50 kpm in a 30 kph zone, ban them for 6 months.

Brendan
 
I live in an a suburban area that already has a 30 kmh zone. It's a joke.
The only reason anyone goes under 30 kmh is because of road conditions e.g. parked cars or ramps. On any clear stretch of road in the area they are doing 40 at least.
If you are genuinely concerned about speeds, police dangerous driving or put in traffic calming.
This is only a fig leaf of protection. But some people seem to care more about appearances than reality.

Accidents in the city centre e.g. around the canals are not being caused by speed, but by road layouts and trucks on roads with cyclists in their blind spots.
 
I'd agree with points being made about over use of 30kmph limits devaluing areas where they are more important like around schools or heavy residential areas. Regardless, the limits aren't being effectively policed as they are, so this is just political maneuvering around an issue without actually doing anything about it.

The council's previous assessment a few years ago showed 80-90% of motorists were breaking the existing speed limits in Dublin. If they just started enforcing those, it'd make a big difference.
 
I suspect that the primary aim is not to control the speed of vehicles in Dublin city centre but instead the speed limit is being used to discourage the use of private cars.
 
Hi Tommy

I think that not enforcing laws undermines respect for them. It wouldn't be capricious and arbitrary. I am suggesting that people would know in advance that if they do 50 kph in a 30 kph zone, that they will be banned if caught. I am also suggesting that there should not be widespread 30 kph zones, as that undermines respect for them.

Brendan
 
A six-month driving ban for 50km/h in a 30km/h zone would be utterly disproportionate to the penalties applicable to other driving infractions including speeding infractions and as such would be both capricious and arbitrary.

There is a 30km/h zone on the southbound ramp from the N3 onto the M50 at Castleknock and nobody drives there within the stated speed limit because to do so would be to risk a rear-ending. Are you suggesting that every driver that uses that stretch gets a six-month disqualification too? :eek:
 
I think that people who go 20 kph over the limit, should be banned for 6 months. And not just in the 30 kph zone.

I don't know the ramp you are talking about. And it is a problem to do 30k when everyone else is speeding. But I always do slow down to the speed limit. I think that the engineers who determine the speed limit, probably know more about safe speeding limits than you or I do.

Brendan
 
The southbound M50 30kph zone in Castleknock was policed with speed cameras when it first opened. There were protests and I haven't seen or heard reports of cameras there in the past few years. There is a fixed penalty applicable to someone doing 50kph in that zone. It would be insane to disqualify them for 6 months. The half of Blanchardstown would be off the road in that case.
 
T McGibney said:
The southbound M50 30kph zone in Castleknock was policed with speed cameras when it first opened. There were protests and I haven't seen or heard reports of cameras there in the past few years. There is a fixed penalty applicable to someone doing 50kph in that zone. It would be insane to disqualify them for 6 months. The half of Blanchardstown would be off the road in that case.
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If there have been no accidents there, or even very few, then it might suggest this is just another inappropriate speed limit that serves to undermine respect for them as a whole.
 
Leo said:
If there have been no accidents there, or even very few, then it might suggest this is just another inappropriate speed limit that serves to undermine respect for them as a whole.
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I guess putting the 30kph limit makes people slow down to 50ish or below - which is probably about the appropriate speed.
If you slap a 50 sign onto it, people we'll do 80 and kill themselves...
 
Here is the Consultation document

https://consultation.dublincity.ie/...c-consultation-on-proposed-special-speed-limi


"Rationale for the proposed phased introduction of 30km/hr zones


The locations identified on drawing No.3369-10 (Phase 1 & 2) are based on our assessment of the traffic environment across the city over the past 18 months against the following criterion;


· Submissions from Elected Representatives and members of the public over the past couple of years;

· Consideration of roads and streets that include an engineered layout and design and the potential for introducing a self enforcing speed limit;

· Assessment against the accident data base and close consultation with the Gardai, and;

· Information from speed surveys of the existing speeds on candidate roads and streets."


You can watch the presentation from the Council engineer here at item 7 - it's about 25 minutes

http://dublincity.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/226785

Sandymount and Portobello were proposed in 2011 but not implemented

Proposals are based on submissions and traffic surveys

30 kph zones are self-regulating - it has to be accompanied by engineering changes (ramps, tightening of corners) and road safety campaigns

If implemented, we will monitor compliance.

Funding has been allocated, so, if approved, we could start implementing by the end of the year.

Reducing speeds is about saving lives.

McCartan - very much in support. A natural progression.

Mannix Flynn - very, very welcome - standard across the world. The environment is less hostile. Much more livable - How are we going to implement it? How are we going to enforce it? What will the penalties be?

Mr Guiney: Are there many pedestrians killed in these areas? How are we going to enforce the new limits?

Engineer: You can make submissions on any area and they will be considered for the next phase.
We have done a lot of speed surveys - so they are credible areas for the new limits. We will monitor after the introduction to see if speeds have come down. We may have to do other engineering solutions if the new limits don't work. The three pillars of road safety: Education, engineering and enforcement.

Again, they are self regulation and self enforcing, so there is no intention to allocate additional Garda resources to enforce them. Speed cameras may be used.

Pedestrians are the most vulnerable - over 50% of fatalities since 2009 are pedestrians. Speed is the main cause of fatalities.

Some other guy: Main streets e.g. Thomas Street will be kept at 50k, but the residential streets will be 30k.

Derek Peppard: This is a visionary proposal.

Engineer: We have no proposals to reduce the speeds on the arterial roads from 50 to 30, but they are open to consultation.

Kieran Binchy: I welcome it. We won't reduce speed by speed limits. We will reduce them by engineering.

Cuffe: We should reduce the speed limits on arterial roads to 40k.
 
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Here is the campaign behind it which explains the rationale better:

http://www.love30.ie/

I don't really understand why some areas e.g. Sandymount were chosen and others, e.g. Ballsbridge, were not. I could imagine getting caught out driving around Dublin and not realising what the speed limit is.

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I think 30 km is too slow in cities and it should be 40. Its no wonder people break speed limits when they're too slow. Most traffic in most cities go faster than 30. Unless in a built up area with heavy traffic where people very sensibly slow down 30 should be reserved for passing schools and housing estates.
 
Just to put this in context, a person can run 1.5 times faster than the proposed speed limit.

This is less about safety and more about an agenda against motorists.

30kph is a ridiculous speed limit.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
This is less about safety and more about an agenda against motorists.
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I'd say it's less about safety than quality of life. People would rather live/shop/work beside a slow road than a fast one.

In the city centre, I don't think it would be any loss to motorists - when we exceed 30kph we are usually racing to the next red light or queue. In dead-end neighborhoods, that don't have through-traffic, the quality-of-life improvements could outweigh the lost time. I like the idea of traffic being slow enough for kids to play on neighborhood streets.

It's not going to work without engineering changes. If the "landscape" demands that we drive slowly, we will. Otherwise we won't.
 
trasneoir said:
In the city centre, I don't think it would be any loss to motorists - when we exceed 30kph we are usually racing to the next red light or queue.
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I have to disagree - you're thinking of rush hour traffic jams. What about saturday mornings? Weekday afternoons? If you drove at 30kph on a clear road in your driving test you would fail - for good reason. Cars are not meant to be cruised at that speed and doing so actually distracts you from your attention on the road.
There might be merit to 40 kph, there is no merit to 30 kph.
 
maryburry said:
. Its no wonder people break speed limits when they're too slow. .
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LOL: Laws are broken when offender is not concerned about being caught and any subsequent penalties.
Drink driving, drug driving, cell phone use, running red lights, even speeding tickets ( never got the fix charge your honour) etc etc.
 
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