Downsizing. Has anyone done this and any regrets?

[Leo]

Can't say I've ever replace a roof, paths, or driveway, in any of the houses I've owned. Maintained yes, replaced no.

I've never worked it over say a 10, 20yr period for my own home. But I have worked it out for rentals, and for me its less than service fees. Though I have used a agent to handle maintenance so its not like I do it myself.

Yep, the big ticket items don't happen often, but when they do...

My main point really is that people don't track what they spend maintaining a home, all the little bits they pick up in Lidl or wherever along the way, then they hear of €1,500 service fees and think that's expensive even though they may be paying more overall themselves. They don't factor time into it either, or the increasing difficulty of some maintenance tasks as they get older.

 

[Monbretia]

The big ticket items can happen in a complex too, lifts is a big one, my brother worked in London and I remember him telling me of having to go around to apartments to tell them lift was needing major repairs and everyone had to stump up part of the cost and it was substantial, a very hard sell to those on ground floor! The ongoing fund from maintenance fees was not sufficient to do the repairs.

 

[Blackrock1]

The big ticket items can happen in a complex too, lifts is a big one, my brother worked in London and I remember him telling me of having to go around to apartments to tell them lift was needing major repairs and everyone had to stump up part of the cost and it was substantial, a very hard sell to those on ground floor! The ongoing fund from maintenance fees was not sufficient to do the repairs.

there is a lot more thought put into how a sinking fund is funded and maintained nowadays (in well run developments at least)

 

[AlbacoreA]

Yep, the big ticket items don't happen often, but when they do...

My main point really is that people don't track what they spend maintaining a home, all the little bits they pick up in Lidl or wherever along the way, then they hear of €1,500 service fees and think that's expensive even though they may be paying more overall themselves. They don't factor time into it either, or the increasing difficulty of some maintenance tasks as they get older.

There is big difference between anything you pick up in Lidl and replacing a roof.

there is a lot more thought put into how a sinking fund is funded and maintained nowadays (in well run developments at least)

We've had a lot of high profile news stories about apartment owners being asked to stump up massive costs for all sorts of problems.

I'm not seeing a huge difference. Indeed with with a house you can stagger it as suits. With apartments you seem to be stuck with someone else's schedule for the work.

Boom-era apartment owners left with large bills to fix defects | Hughes Murphy Solicitors

Hundreds of residents in boom-era apartment blocks are facing huge bills, risk of eviction and prospect of costly legal actions, an Irish Times investigation has revealed. New details published on...

www.hughesmurphy.ie

 

[AlbacoreA]

To get back to the OP's question I guess there is no right answer because it really depends on what makes you happy.

I am pretty much determined to downsize sooner rather than later because I believe that it will be the right thing to do for me and my wife based on what we hope to do when I stop working. I don't particularly enjoy gardening but I do like access to some outside space, so whether that is private or shared does not really matter to me. Furthermore, I do not want to be dependent on a car to do my shopping or local socialising. I would also hope to spend reasonably long stretches of the winter living in more pleasant climes so I want a property that I can safely leave vacant for these periods. So a relatively modern energy efficient townhouse or large appartment would suit me. We have moved four times since we had children and I have learned that I really do not need as much stuff as I thought I did when I was younger . When we renovated the house we are currently living in we intentionally reduced the amount of potential storage space because we knew that if you have it you'd fill it. Now we try to live by a one-in, one-out rule whereby to justify a purchase of anything non-essential we have to sell or recycle the old one. I guess that this makes me a perfect downsizing candidate because I do not tend to form strong emotional attachements to belongings.

I have a plan for when my kids are gone and downsizing is a big part of this. However, I can understand why this lifestyle change would not suit everyone. If you have to force an elderly parent (or parents) to do this then it is perhaps not the right solution despite the practical advantages. A financial advisor friend once told me that in his experience if you had not downsized by your late 60s then you were unlikely to ever do so because intertia creeps in when as you get older.

I agree. Everyone situation is different. If it works, then it works. But its so individual.

 

[Blackrock1]

There is big difference between anything you pick up in Lidl and replacing a roof.



We've had a lot of high profile news stories about apartment owners being asked to stump up massive costs for all sorts of problems.

I'm not seeing a huge difference. Indeed with with a house you can stagger it as suits. With apartments you seem to be stuck with someone else's schedule for the work.

Boom-era apartment owners left with large bills to fix defects | Hughes Murphy Solicitors

Hundreds of residents in boom-era apartment blocks are facing huge bills, risk of eviction and prospect of costly legal actions, an Irish Times investigation has revealed. New details published on...

www.hughesmurphy.ie

You can stagger it to an extent, but if your roof is leaking its a false economy,

Ireland certainly has issues with complexes built in the early to mid 2000s but its not reasonable to expect a sinking fund to be built up to a level that assumes the builders was entirely negligent when building the thing in the first place.

 

[Leo]

There is big difference between anything you pick up in Lidl and replacing a roof.

Did I suggest everyone was replacing roofs on a regular basis?

 

[Kilkenny06]

We seem to have got sidetracked here, but remember that apartment service fees split into those involved in the day-to-day running of the complex (insurance, bins, a bit of paint here and there), and the major fixes which are usually paid out of the sinking fund. Apartment owners pay their service fees, house owners pay directly.

What isn't directly comparable is the major fixes/sinking fund budget. Apartments will have certain costs which home owners don't have (e.g. lifts, electric gates if they have them), but there isn't a building in the country which is immune to time and the weather - home owners can decide themselves to not pay for upkeep, but it is I think a question of timing (or perhaps, pushing your luck) rather than any "saving" for those who own a house.

 

[AlbacoreA]

I think if you are downsizing to save costs you should be realistic about the maintenance costs. I think people are over estimating houses and under estimating apartments. Not all will agree and thats ok. People will have different experiences. There also a bit side tracking due to conflating home improvements with maintenance.

I think it a good conversation though. I saw one programme where a couple in their 60s downsized to a bungalow but also upgrade the property to A rated, a passive house in effect. Then added accessibility features throughout. Planning for future mobility issues. I thought that was smart.

At the same time things, change. I think my own lotto win plans have scaled back as I've got older. I no longer want the hassle of things I might originally have planned. Still want the workshop to hide away in though.

 

[Leper]

If anybody wants to downsize, first think about the cost. Does it cost?
If you’re going to a smaller house or an apartment, will you be financially better off with taxes, solicitors fees, estate agents outlay, utilities, location etc. How much better off can you be? The calculations are simple; do them with cold accuracy and make your mind up. Forget peer pressure, family pressure and the likes of this forum, friends, etc. Write down the cold figures and look at them coldly. Then decide one way or the other.

 

[cloughy]

One of the advantages of downsizing is if you can free up capital and spend it on yourself and enjoy your later life than leave it behind you, you have earned it you should be allowed spend it,

 

[AlbacoreA]

I think that's a critical metric. How much capital will it free up.

When I looked there was a premium on a bungalow that also required a massive renovation. It just wasn't freeing up enough capital to make it worthwhile. And like someone mentioned earlier taking on a big construction project had little appeal.

But for someone else it might free a lot of capital.

 

[LondonIrish]

Following up on this thread after spending a long couple of weeks trying to help elderly relatives who have suddenly found themselves unable to cope because of illness.

One half of the couple has been disabled for 10+ years whilst the other was the main carer. This was not a perfect situation but it worked. This couple's children had occasionally tried to encourage their parents to consider downsizing but had always been met with hostility at the mere suggestion of this.

Now, however, both parents have found themselves with limited mobility and they are living in a property that is unsuitable for people in their situation (far away from shops, sloping driveway, lots of stairs, no downstairs washing facilities etc). Whilst downsizing would not have done anything to prevent the inevitable detioration in their overall health, it would have allowed them to continue to live with a degree of dignity. Now they cannot leave their own home without help and can only really continue to live there because the support of their children. It is not a long term solution and it is alreadly creating tensions between the siblings who have now become carers themselves.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Been through this a few times myself. People think are managing and thus won't consider it. But all it take its minor change and its suddenly a major issue. I came a realisation, because I was meeting so much resistance from Parents and Siblings, it would mean staying at home wouldn't be viable, simply due to sheer stubbornness. It a very common story,

 

[PGF2016]

tried to encourage their parents to consider downsizing but had always been met with hostility at the mere suggestion of this.

I tried this 10+ years ago with my in laws. Was told to keep quiet. Now they are isolated and unable to care for themselves and the (adult) children have long drives every weekend to care for them. Doesn't work for anyone.

The sentimental value of their house was put above their (and their families) quality of life.

 

[lff12]

It depends a lot on whether or not you have good options nearby and if you are close to your neighbours. A lot of people stay because their neighbours are close to them, but then neighbours start to die off.
The trouble with apartments in Ireland is that a high percentage of our apartment stock was designed for investors and according to Apartment owners Network only 30% is owner occupied. It mainly means you could have a more rapid change of neighbours and they are likely to be much younger than living in a mature street with older neighbours. That said - not always a bad thing either, some younger neighbours are very good to older neighbours around them.
The secondary issue is that the design of those investor-geared apartments is towards households of unrelated adults sharing - hence high numbers of bathrooms. They might not be ideal for anybody with "stuff."
However there was a small number of developments that were targeted more widely with a view at downsizers. Be prepared to be surprised at how expensive they are and high service charges - the other side though, is somebody arranges to clean the gutters and carry out basic maintenance, which might suit older people.

 

[lff12]

If you're not going to declutter, an apartment isn't for you. However I wouldn't dismiss apartment living, there are a lot of advantages for older people - no external maintenance, they're usually easier to heat, often have nice views, and also the point mentioned earlier about it because easier to lock up if you are going away for a while. There is a big difference between a well-run apartment block with an active management company who will clamp down on anti-social behaviour, and what many of us might have experienced when we were younger or on our holidays in costa-del-whereever.

Personally I think decluttering is a good way to make a bit of a break with a previous life and start a new one. 70 is not so old any more, and fingers crossed you have plenty of life left to lead. I took a bit of a Marie Kondo approach to previous house moves, and threw away (nearly) everything I was keeping "just in case" and kept only the things that brought me happiness.

One point I forgot to add is that a lot of apartments are in secure gated complexes. In the last one I lived in, it was so secure people readily left windows open and I regularly forgot to lock my car and front doors. The only security issue we had was about once every 10 years some kids would scale the front wall and walk down the side wall to an accessible point and steal a bike, but it really only happened once a decade, unlike where I now live, where car door tampering happens several times a year & break ins occur a couple of times a year.

 

[odyssey06]

It depends a lot on whether or not you have good options nearby and if you are close to your neighbours. A lot of people stay because their neighbours are close to them, but then neighbours start to die off.
The trouble with apartments in Ireland is that a high percentage of our apartment stock was designed for investors and according to Apartment owners Network only 30% is owner occupied. It mainly means you could have a more rapid change of neighbours and they are likely to be much younger than living in a mature street with older neighbours. That said - not always a bad thing either, some younger neighbours are very good to older neighbours around them.
The secondary issue is that the design of those investor-geared apartments is towards households of unrelated adults sharing - hence high numbers of bathrooms. They might not be ideal for anybody with "stuff."
However there was a small number of developments that were targeted more widely with a view at downsizers. Be prepared to be surprised at how expensive they are and high service charges - the other side though, is somebody arranges to clean the gutters and carry out basic maintenance, which might suit older people.

Plus older apartment stock may have a lot of steps and stairs, unreliable lifts or no lifts at all.
Sound proofing can be hit and miss.

 

[lff12]

In Ireland we think of an apartment as a 40 sq meter shoebox with 1 or 2 small bedrooms, negligible storage, 1 bathroom, 1 room that is somehow supposed to function as a kitchen, dining room and living room. If you are lucky you might have a balcony overlooking a main road that you can just about fit 2 chairs on. Fine for people in their 20’s but once you start a family it is a total non-runner and it certainly isn’t going to be suitable, let alone desirable for downsizers.

We need a completely new class of apartment in this country along the lines of a the “classic six” apartments that they have in New York. These units have were designed to have six rooms - living room, formal dining room, kitchen, 2 large bedrooms, and a maids room (maids room now commonly converted to 3rd bedroom/office etc. - this is effectively a semi-d laid out as an apartment with all the benefits of accessibility, security, no maintenance etc. as mentioned on this thread.

My folks were lucky enough to get a place like this in the area we lived all our lives but I would bet there are only a handful of apartments like it on the market at any time, especially in a small purpose built development. A penthouse in a large block comes with the hassle of having often hundreds of other residents.

I hope the government would look down the line at how we can give people the option to downsize in style (can I coin that phrase?!) if, and only if, they wish to do so.

Minimum size for apartments was brought up to 55m2 for 1 beds just before the bust. It was reduced to 45m2 around 2015 but the minimum room sizes under ministerial guidelines were not changed meaning for practical purposes most new 1 bed apartments need to be around 50m2 to fit in minimum room sizes.

Yes you can find sub 40m2 1 beds but they are few and far between and most urban development plans since 2008 voted in even higher minimum standards with the result that most apartments built since then are enormous and unaffordable. Plus many dev plans stipulate strict limits on the percentage of 1 beds so they are also rare as well as expensive.

 

[lff12]

It's clear the price of electricity, heating etc has gone up more than 30% and last years fees probably didn't cover that growth so there is likely some catching up / repaying overspend. Plus all services across the board have increased - gardening, maintenance men etc. Have you tried getting a repair person at anything close to 2019 prices recently? I would hazard a guess the 30% is to cover last year's overspend and to cover the reality of the current cost of living.

Its also that many of these have large areas to maintain, thanks to "minimum amenity space" requirements so a considerable amount of effort and thus money goes into maintaining grounds. Even more of an issue where some of the property is a converted period property so all maintenance needs to match the standards for protected structures.