Docking wages for human error

Purple, you stated that it it illegal - that is not correct. Don't bother with the attitude that I am a poor boss and poor in business because I take a stand on a matter.

I have a commitment to my customers and I hire and pay people to assist in that commitment. They are accountable for their actions when representing my company. If they damage my company in any way that is due to indifference or carelessness they will have to face up to their actions.

BTW: There are lots of SME owners who read the threads on this site who have staff who make errors that are not on the scale you use as an example. Are you keen to mis-inform them?

Finally, the irony that a number of the threads on the AAM site are about peoples dissatisfaction with the companies who staff who make errors etc. and wonder how to get compensated!
 
Claire1956 said:
Purple, you stated that it it illegal - that is not correct. Don't bother with the attitude that I am a poor boss and poor in business because I take a stand on a matter.

I have a commitment to my customers and I hire and pay people to assist in that commitment. They are accountable for their actions when representing my company. If they damage my company in any way that is due to indifference or carelessness they will have to face up to their actions.

BTW: There are lots of SME owners who read the threads on this site who have staff who make errors that are not on the scale you use as an example. Are you keen to mis-inform them?

Finally, the irony that a number of the threads on the AAM site are about peoples dissatisfaction with the companies who staff who make errors etc. and wonder how to get compensated!
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I'm a shareholder in an SME.

I have outlines why I think it's a bad idea to do as the OP’s employer is attempting to do.

It has been clarified by other posters that, unless explicitly stated in a contract of employment, it is illegal to deduct costs due to human error from an employee’s wages though I do accept that my initial post was not accurate in every case.

I made no comments about your ability as a boss, one way or the other.
 
Claire1956 said:
The OP's query is valid, and my first reply to was to correct an inaccurate response. However the thread moved on and it is not that query I am replying to now, it is the overall 'tone' of peoples attitudes to mistakes being made and stating that the employer can't hold staff accountable, i.e. it's illegal to have staff pay for their mistakes was a clear communication in the thread.

The conclusion I am drawing is that no-one feels ownership for their actions, it's always the fault of someone else. I am aware that other business owners may be reading the thread, some of them new to business. They may now believe that they cannot hold their staff to account, which I would also believe if I didn't know better based on the replies in the thread. But the truth is that the cost of mistakes an employee makes can be deducted.

When I shared that info on the thread one of the replies was 'oh I cost Intel X amount, good job I didn't have to pay' - but don't the readers realise that they do pay somewhere along the line...............we all pay.

I took the retail example as much of todays media is criticising retailers for the mark-up. But looking at the overall 'it's not me' attitude the mark-up must be partially to cover costs such as those examples mentioned in this thread..do you see the full circle I am talking about??

Bottom line not one of the posters agreed that the cost of an employees mistake can be deducted! However, it can!
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That's a fairly one-sided view of the situation.

You forget that employers have responsibilities - to recruit, to pay adequate rates, to train, to supervise, to document procedures etc etc. It sounds like you are very quick to blame employees, I just wonder if you are so quick to ensure that employees are adequetly prepared for their role.

It is not unusual for any B2B contract to rule out liability for consequential loss. So suppliers of IT systems or fridges aren't responsible for costs arising from their failure. But you seem to want to hold employees to a higher bar.

In many cases, this would be clearly nonsensical (like the Intel example above) as the employee would simply not have anything like enough money/assets to fund this liability.
 
I think the OP has to pay the damages or lose his job. It's no good quoting wage acts and unfair dismissal there are ways around that. Simply put the employer can fire the staff member for incompetence and if he doesn't pay up the employer will make his life hell until he quits. That's the stark reality of life in many jobs. Not everybody is Intel. In an ideal world the staff member wouldn't have to pay up but we don't live in an ideal world and we live in a world where jobs are scarce which puts added pressure on the worker in this case. So choice is pay up or leave.
 
Quote: You forget that employers have responsibilities - to recruit, to pay adequate rates, to train, to supervise, to document procedures etc etc. It sounds like you are very quick to blame employees, I just wonder if you are so quick to ensure that employees are adequetly prepared for their role.


Trust me, I don't forget. The reason I am quick to respond on this matter is because I take the time to ensure that staff are trained, are able to work at the level required, have time to adjust to new roles, negotiate any changes in work practices, can fit the work into their lifestyle that gives a positive outcome for both us. Perhaps if I cared a little less I wouldn't get so bothered when staff are careless and show a lack of effort on their part.
 
An employer cannot make a deduction from the wages of an employee (or receive any payment from an employee) unless:
  1. the deduction (or payment) is required or authorised by law (for example PRSI etc.)
  2. The deduction (or payment) is required and authorised to be made by virtue of a term of the employee's contract of employment and this term was provided for in the contract before, and was in force at the time of, the deduction (or payment),
  3. in the case of a deduction, the employee has given his prior consent to the deduction in writing.
An employer cannot make a deduction from the wages of an employee in respect of
  • any act or omission of the employee, or
  • any goods or services supplied to the employee
unless:
  1. the deduction is required or authorised to be made by virtue of a term of the contract of employment, and before the act or omission, the employee was notified in writing of the existence of this term,
  2. the deduction is of an amount that is fair and reasonable having regard to all the circumstances, and
  3. the employer, at least one week before the deduction, notifies the employee in writing of the particulars of the act or omission and the amount of the deduction.
 
Claire1956 said:
Quote: You forget that employers have responsibilities - to recruit, to pay adequate rates, to train, to supervise, to document procedures etc etc. It sounds like you are very quick to blame employees, I just wonder if you are so quick to ensure that employees are adequetly prepared for their role.


Trust me, I don't forget. The reason I am quick to respond on this matter is because I take the time to ensure that staff are trained, are able to work at the level required, have time to adjust to new roles, negotiate any changes in work practices, can fit the work into their lifestyle that gives a positive outcome for both us. Perhaps if I cared a little less I wouldn't get so bothered when staff are careless and show a lack of effort on their part.
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I'm glad to hear that, however, if you deduct money from staff wages that they have not agreed to or that their contract of employment does not allow you to do so, you are breaking the law. It's black and white
 
That was the point that I made in my first post on this thread!!!! As long as you follow procedure as laid out in the Act you can deduct - black and white indeed.
 
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