Do I have grounds to pull out

Hi dub 1,
I think your costs should be relatively low. You will refuse to complete the contract and rescind it for misrepresentation and breach of contract probably. Your solicitor will look for the deposit back from the vendor's solicitor. The vendor will have to sue you if he wants you to complete, and if I was his solicitor I would be strongly advising him not to do so. I doubt very much if he will sue you and suspect that if your solr sticks to his guns you will get the deposit back eventually, without having to formally issue proceedings. It will probably take a few months with all the to-ing and fro-ing.

If I were you I would hold off on buying anything else until all of this is resolved.

Best of luck.

Kate.
 
thanks for your commens. As and when I get updates I will post them. Hopefully it'll all work out for us
 
I got an email from mysolicitor today. He spoke with the builders solicitor who thinks that we are trying to get out of the contract because of the downturn in the market. His client is of the same opinion. The builders Architect seems to be of the impression (I think that it is one large lie) that the issues are being resolved and that he had a productive meeting with our Engineer when we did our second inspection(which was supposed to have been our final inspection). I find this odd as the architect only stayed for 10 mins or so and literally did not say more than a handful of words to the engineer. The engineer also did not discuss any of his findings on the day with the builder(who was also there). Our solicitor advised that our Engineer is adamant that this premises are not completed and cannot be completed in accordance with the Planning Permission or Building Regulations or good building practise and therefore that we intend to rescind the Contract. That will require us to enter into Arbitration in accordance with the terms of the Building Agreement. Arbitration is required prior to the issue of proceedings and can be if both parties agree be appropriate. The solicitor would not agree to abandonment of this procedure in the light of the very strong views held by our Engineer. The solicitor would have thought that the Builder would have rejected the notion but did not get that impression during his conversation with the builders solicitor. The solicitor said that we are now in a situation where the completion has to be abandoned.

Any comments. Is the other sides attitude completely expected. I'm probably getting prematurely worried(I hope)
 
If your side intends to use the Arbitration route, make sure that ALL your team are happy with the Arbitrator. Did you pass the Barrister details to your solicitor yet ??
 
Yeah I di but only this afternoon. Is it a good idea to go to arbitration before issuing proceedings. Are you surprised with the reaction from the other side
 
No surprise there. The builder will just defend his position - he will not try to see your point of view.
 
I think that due process has to be gone through. I am not surprised at the reaction from the other side. As long as your engineer can be cross examined and is up to thr mark. However, I would suggest to your solicitor that you will go down this route on the condition that the Builder places the deposit you paid into an Escrow account (joint Account between his solicitor and yours) to protect either party.
 
I'm probably asking an impossible question to answer but based on what you know about this do you think that the liklihood is that we will get our deposit back. My solicitor made the point of saying last week that he thinks that the engineer would be excellent if this went to court etc
 
Yes, but that is why I mentioned having same placed in a joint account. Basically to make sure same is visible. The manner in which nthe building trade is and gthe way this builder constructs I would leave nothing to chance.
 
mercman said:
However, I would suggest to your solicitor that you will go down this route on the condition that the Builder places the deposit you paid into an Escrow account (joint Account between his solicitor and yours) to protect either party.
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That is excellent advice - take it OP!
 
Consider the kind of person who would try and flog such a building to someone. Thats who you are dealing with.
 
The architect is working for the builder so you shouldn't expect him to be on your side. Engineer to architect - they may talk honestly to one another but the architect wants to continue working for the builder so will 'tone' it down for the builder. Sometimes your boss doesn't want to hear the truth.
The escrow account is a marvellous idea but I doubt the builder will go for it. It would show good faith by the builder if he agreed to it, as previous poster said he's trying to sell something not to standard and therefore not a person to be trusted. Someone who has built many houses knows exactly that it's not to standard. I may be wrong but I imagine the arbitration route is just a delaying tactic. Ask your solicitor if it would be better to go straight to law. I don't know if refusing to go down the arbitration route it would be looked upon badly. I don't see how you can lose. The builder presumably cannot get an engineer/expert to verify that the building complies with planning/building regulations etc so how can he win. That is the only way he could win surely. Try and think from the builder's point of view. What would you do if you were the builder.
 
Just to throw a spanner in the works...have you costed solicitor fees vs. deposit? Esp. if this goes through further processes (arbitration, court, etc...). Your solicitor fees may end up costing you more than the original deposit did.
 
Hi. Thanks alot for your comments. I think that there may be an arbitration clause in the building contract. But going to arbitration is not normally binding(I think). Is the point of arbitration to give an idea of what the decision is likely to be if the case went to court, but at the fraction of the cost. I take it nobody is surprised at the builders reaction. I'm a bit down about the whole thing but he was hardly going to just hand over the deposit without a fight. With regard to the costs the deposit is €54000 so its definately worth fighting for. Does anybody have any worst case scenario costs for this. I'm trying to think logically in that how can we be forced into buying a place that is not completed in accordance with planning, or building regulations or good building practice in general. Is there a reason why the builder after all these months has not put forward his own engineers report if he thinks that this place is ok. Thanks again for your comments
 
just to give an update to those who gave me advice on this over the months. We referred our case to a barrister. We havent heard anything back. The builder offered us a discount about 3 weeks ago. We declined. I got a call from the solicitors office this morning to say that a cheque arrived from the builders solicitor this morning in full reimbursement of our deposit. To say I was shocked was an understatement. He obviously knew that we had a really srong case against him. At least its all over now. The only thing is that there was no mention of all the stuff that we have in the house(we put in all the appliances, fancy rads, wall mounted fire etc etc. About €5000 i value). Would anybody think that we will have a problem getting these back. Surely he cant just keep them. My solicitor is not back from holiday till next week so I havnt discussed this with him yet.
 
dub1 said:
just to give an update to those who gave me advice on this over the months. We referred our case to a barrister. We havent heard anything back. The builder offered us a discount about 3 weeks ago. We declined. I got a call from the solicitors office this morning to say that a cheque arrived from the builders solicitor this morning in full reimbursement of our deposit. To say I was shocked was an understatement. He obviously knew that we had a really srong case against him. At least its all over now. The only thing is that there was no mention of all the stuff that we have in the house(we put in all the appliances, fancy rads, wall mounted fire etc etc. About €5000 i value). Would anybody think that we will have a problem getting these back. Surely he cant just keep them. My solicitor is not back from holiday till next week so I havnt discussed this with him yet.
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Dub1 - an amazing story - glad you had a good outcome. I am amazed at the competence(sic) of our esteemed professional classes in dragging this one out for so long - how many charters and ethics codes do you think have been compromised in the last nine months of dealing with lawyers, architects etc. No wonder the country is in the mess it is.

Big hand to your engineer who seems to be the most ethical person you have had to deal with - he/she deserves a serious pint on Friday.

Re the fittings....if you paid for them directly to the suppliers then go back in and take them out ( not break in obviously) as they are your property. More difficult if you paid this ( so called ) builder.



Best of luck with your next venture - you have had a lucky/timely escape - hope your next project goes better.


BTW -was anyone doing any work on 14 November ?!
 
Thanks. Luckily I paid for everything myself and have all the recieps so I'm guessing there shouldnt be a problem here. I agree about the engineer. He was excellent. If anybody is in the market for hiring a structural engineer just ask for his details. It was a very small amount very well spent.
 
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