Do governments ever have enough?

[Deiseblue]

Teachers pay continued to increase right up to the IMF and EU took over. They were told that support services would have to be cut in order to pay their last round of increases and they took it anyway. They are paying more taxes now though and they have been hit with the pension levy but both happened after they took the money from the support srvices budget for themselves.

So we are agreed that Teacher's pay did not continue to increase right up to the relatively recent IMF/EU involvement ?

I have yet to see any evidence that support services would have to be cut to pay the 2.5% increase of September 2008 nor have I seen any evidence that teacher's were asked to forego that increase.

 

[Purple]

So we are agreed that Teacher's pay did not continue to increase right up to the relatively recent IMF/EU involvement ?

I have yet to see any evidence that support services would have to be cut to pay the 2.5% increase of September 2008 nor have I seen any evidence that teacher's were asked to forego that increase.

I remember the discussions on the radio at the time (in 2008). The link btween the two was raised a number of times. I can't quote chapter and verse but as he son was receiving support services it was something that I was very interested in.

 

[Chris]

What government would have the balls to tell us that the old and the vulnerable will suffer and the poor would be hungry for the first time in over 50 years and those left working will be even harder hit with eve more taxes? I ask because that’s probably the best solution to our current problems.

I don't believe that you would have to increase taxation at all, but rather decrease it. All the necessary savings to balance the budget and even run a surplus would be possible by cutting expenditure.

The bank bailout is down to the reckless behavior of a small number of bankers and the failure of the government to regulate them, but the taxpayers are being forced to contribute to this as well.

No, the bank bailout is down to the totally brainless decision by government to first guarantee private debt, then nationalise private debt, and then dump billions of publicly guaranteed money into private organisation.
And the reason for banks being in so much trouble is not some illusory regulation that was either scrapped or not introduced. Banks lend out money that they receive from others, that is the nature of their business. The more they receive, the more they lend. Now where did all that money come from? Ultimately the ECB which increased the base money supply by 210% between 1999 and 2008. And just to add some more fun to the party, government introduced policies that further fueled the real estate bubble.

 

[Shawady]

Chris, I'm no way defending the guarantee but the government may point out that if they had known the extent of the problem in the banks (particularly Anglo) they would not have included them. At the very least the banks were not honest with the government on the night of the guarantee.

My point remains though, that most people benefited from the reckless spending and taxation policies and have a responsibility to contribute to fixing the problem. However, the banking problem was not the fault of the taxpayers yet we have to bail them out.

 

[Chris]

Chris, I'm no way defending the guarantee but the government may point out that if they had known the extent of the problem in the banks (particularly Anglo) they would not have included them. At the very least the banks were not honest with the government on the night of the guarantee.

I absolutely agree that the banks were not honest, but I would expect no different. And while the government can "hide" behind the veil of ignorance, it does not excuse the utter stupidity of their policy. It was clear from the very start that the value at risk was huge. This should have prompted a decision to not take action until the level of risk was identified. Under no circumstances should such a decision have been made behind closed doors in essentially a matter of hours.

My point remains though, that most people benefited from the reckless spending and taxation policies and have a responsibility to contribute to fixing the problem. However, the banking problem was not the fault of the taxpayers yet we have to bail them out.

I would generally agree that everyone in some way benefited in the past 15 years, but that does not justify making private debt public. What the taxpayer is liable for is the debt due to the budget deficit, not the banks' debts.
And we do not have to bail out banks, the alternative and correct decision would have been to appoint liquidators to the banks that were not able to stand on their own two feet.

 

[Complainer]

No western government will ever have enough because the western way of life is intrinsically unsustainable. Universal health care, pensions and social welfare mean every western country with a low-tax fiscal policy is essentially bankrupt and always will be.

You should give Scandanavia a call and let them know. They've been surviviing quite well to date.

 

[Purple]

You should give Scandanavia a call and let them know. They've been surviviing quite well to date.

The Scandinavian countries what have massive natural resources are. I'm sure there's no link though.
Sweden, the country that has the iron ore, is in the middle of their very own property bubble. Other than that they are fine... I'm sure they will have a soft landing. They were smart enough to keep out of the Euro though.

 

[shnaek]

People also forget that Sweden had 60 years of eugenics under socialist government right up to the 70's. They had a policy of getting rid of the weak, in the interests of a strong Swedish race.

 

[Firefly]

If you'd care to read my post you'd notice the term low tax. Scandanavia's tax take is approximately double that of Ireland.

And that's what the lefties want...higher taxes to pay for more public services....which mightn't be so bad in some countries, but here the money would largely just go to increasing the salaries of those already employed by the state for the same or slightly more services.

 

[Sunny]

Even the Scandanavian Countries are gradually moving away from this model. Everything always looks so much rosier looking in from the outside. It's like when FG hold the Dutch system up as an example of how Universal Health Insurance is such a great idea. I know an awful lot of Dutch people who are amazed that we want to go down this road and using them as an example. A lot of them simply go to Belgium for healthcare.