I think that this is a very unfortunate outcome but serves him right. I can understand that somebody forgets their license (there was a long debate about this here on AAM recently) but how can you forget your insurance disk? Furthermore, if you can produce both, how can you forget to pop into Garda station and present them? And to top it all off, who does this person thinks he is to turn up in court half a day late? Britney Spears?
I probably sound harsh being one of the people who are utterly anal about those things (making sure that I have my DL on me and that my insurance disk is put in it's sleeve the same day I receive it in the post) but the only thing I'd say your friend can do is acquire some timekeeping skills and respect for the law. From the legal POV, I wouldn't know as I am not a legal professional.
I probably sound harsh being one of the people who are utterly anal about those things (making sure that I have my DL on me and that my insurance disk is put in it's sleeve the same day I receive it in the post) but the only thing I'd say your friend can do is acquire some timekeeping skills and respect for the law. From the legal POV, I wouldn't know as I am not a legal professional.
I don't agree. As far as the court was concerned he had not produced insurance, therefore he was driving without insurance, thus a ban.
You seem to miss the point that he was insured at the time. Our legal system entitles people to appeal a conviction but (unless legally aided)they have to pay for it. I bet he won't be doing it again after forking out something around a grand for this oversight.
He did fail to produce and should still pay a fine for that.
Was he really insured?, if he was then i dont see why he wouldnt have produced it in the Garda station within the 10 days.
I would take it that the guy probably was not insured re: same.
There are two aspects to this; 'the law' and 'enforcement of the law'. Law enforcement involves monitoring the situation to ensure that the laws in place are being observed.
This man failed to demonstrate that he was living/acting within the law. That evokes the penalty. The situation in question is not one where the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of the situation are at issue. If that were so the whole kit-and-kaboodle would grind to a halt as every minor transgression would have to be 'analysed'.
I think it was the philosopher Isiah Berlin who wrote that you can't have freedom and justice..........they are incompatible. He also - wisely in my view - held that the justice system is neither personal nor does it involve truth. Punishment, he said, gives a signal to society at large.
Your friend (and his friends, and many of his friends' friends!) will carry their documents and respond to the processes of the law for awhile don't you think? Job done!
This man failed to demonstrate that he was living/acting within the law. That evokes the penalty. The situation in question is not one where the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of the situation are at issue. If that were so the whole kit-and-kaboodle would grind to a halt as every minor transgression would have to be 'analysed'.
I think it was the philosopher Isiah Berlin who wrote that you can't have freedom and justice..........they are incompatible. He also - wisely in my view - held that the justice system is neither personal nor does it involve truth. Punishment, he said, gives a signal to society at large.
Your friend (and his friends, and many of his friends' friends!) will carry their documents and respond to the processes of the law for awhile don't you think? Job done!
B
barcelona
Guest
Excellent responses.A little update.He was stopped at a checkpoint and was told to produce at his local station.HE DID.He went and showed his licence and insurance.He also had the correct discs on his windscreen when stopped.
The next thing he knows is he gets a summons for failing to produce.This is the court date he missed.
So his only mistake was being late for his court date.Fair enough.He will have to explain his situationto his job next week as he cannot carry out his full duties.The garda accepts he came to the station.
I think the blame can be shared although that is no use here.I suppose my question is if he knew somebody in the court system would he be able to get a quick hearing allowing for the fact that the garda accepts he did produce at the time.
Great reading people.
The next thing he knows is he gets a summons for failing to produce.This is the court date he missed.
So his only mistake was being late for his court date.Fair enough.He will have to explain his situationto his job next week as he cannot carry out his full duties.The garda accepts he came to the station.
I think the blame can be shared although that is no use here.I suppose my question is if he knew somebody in the court system would he be able to get a quick hearing allowing for the fact that the garda accepts he did produce at the time.
Great reading people.
dereko1969
Registered User
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if he had the correct discs why was he asked to produce his insurance details at the garda station?
G
Guest127
Guest
From this weeks Dundalk Argus.....Lady involved in accident left the scene of accident because she did not have insurance, tax or nct.
Fined €250 for hit and run charge 'lesser' offences struck out relating to insurance and tax.
the legal system bristles with inconsistancies.
Fined €250 for hit and run charge 'lesser' offences struck out relating to insurance and tax.
the legal system bristles with inconsistancies.
The fact that you have a disc isn't proof that you have insurance. The law states that you can be asked to produce the rest of the letter (the certificate) that the disc came with.
Which when you think about it isn't anything like 100% proof as you could have cancelled your policy the day before but still have that paperwork.
Barca, the answer to your last question is probably not. It also depends which District he was convicted in.
This is version 1 of your friend's story as relayed by you here. Why ask for advice on version 1 if the newer version is the correct one?
why did he wait till now to do anything? It is a simple question. He had 14 days to lodge appeal.
he needs to consult a good solicitor now.
there may be a way to appeal to High Court immediately to get permission to lodge appeal to Circuit Court even though the normal time span is gone.
I am assuming that he had a licence and was insured, but was either too lazy or thought that it was a 'bit of a laugh' so to speak being summonsed and giving the two fingers to the judge in district court.
The present situation cannot continue. He is currently disqualified and therefore if caught driving, his insurance is INVALID and he could face a prison sentence. people must respect the law and the courts. the judge/system will give everyone a chance to explain themselves.
I think that his best excuse now is to plead with some solicitor that he was a total eejit and make that case to High Court judge, with whatever grovelling apology he can make. He cannot say he was not an eejit.
he needs to consult a good solicitor now.
there may be a way to appeal to High Court immediately to get permission to lodge appeal to Circuit Court even though the normal time span is gone.
I am assuming that he had a licence and was insured, but was either too lazy or thought that it was a 'bit of a laugh' so to speak being summonsed and giving the two fingers to the judge in district court.
The present situation cannot continue. He is currently disqualified and therefore if caught driving, his insurance is INVALID and he could face a prison sentence. people must respect the law and the courts. the judge/system will give everyone a chance to explain themselves.
I think that his best excuse now is to plead with some solicitor that he was a total eejit and make that case to High Court judge, with whatever grovelling apology he can make. He cannot say he was not an eejit.
Plead insanity?
aircobra19
Registered User
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5yr ban seems harsh to me. Considering what people get who commit far worse crimes.
aircobra19
Registered User
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- 2,733
My bad. I misread another comment. Even a year seems harsh for being a lazy lump.
Sorry I'm a bit confused so can you please clarify: Why was your friend asked to produce his licence and insurance? You say he had the correct discs on the windscreen when stopped? Did he have his driving licence with him? If the answer to any of the previous 2 questions is no then his only mistake was not only being late for court, was it?
You have already quoted the answer to this one!