'Discretionary' service charge in restaurants

I remember hearing about a case taken to the European Court whereby it was determind that legally a tip given on credit card did not have to be given to staff (or mayb i imagined that?) In reality I expect that there are some places where staff do get tips & some where management take them. It would be worth asking staff if they get the tips perhaps.
I understood that the automatic service charge on the bill was discretionary - ie. if you do not think the service was good you can refuse to pay it.
Obviously though it is more awkward to ask someone to take something off the bill than it is to just not leave a tip in the first place.
Personally I have no problem asking for a service charge to be taken off but I know many people who get embarrassed if I do such a thing......

In Itsa4 in Sandymount they don't let you give tip on cc - they state that all tips go to staff and that they don't want people to feel awkward giving tip on cc etc etc.
Personally I think adding a service charge is nonsence - as someone early said ...that is part of why you are in the restaurant.
If service is bad I do not leave a tip - I have seen so many people give out about the service & then leave a tip.....like hello! What incentive do the staff have then to give you good service if they get tips regardless!
If service is very good then yes I do leave a tip & I don't have a problem with that.

It seems though that tipping is not just confined to restaurants anymore - taxis/hairdressers etc.......when will it end. I remember one taxi driver in London asking me if I wanted my change & he got into a huff when I replied that yes I did want it & he asked did I not want to leave a tip.....!!
 
We got charged 10% in our local chinese, it wasn't mentioned on their menus so we didn't pay it so out of principle i wasn't paying.
 
Was in Condotti on the Quays last weeks. The back of the menu said an 'optional' 10% was added to bills for parties of 6 or more. It also pointed out that this goes directly to staff.
 
The 'discretionary' service charge really annoys me too.

A while ago, my family (8 adults) went for dinner to Eden. The bill came to 400E, and they gave themselves 40E service charge tip! I think that's scandalous - service would want to be really exceptional to warrant 40E!!

If I were paying I would have asked to have it removed from the bill, and tip the amount I felt they deserved, but my dad was paying, so I couldnt interfere. (He didnt want to query it, since it was a special ocasion and he didnt want to cause hassle for his guests).

Also I went to the spa in Powerscourt, and without mentioning it to me, they gave themselves 18E tip on my bill!! Luckily I noticed and queried it, and got it removed from the bill.
I feel sorry for people who are in a rush or hassled or not used to paying bills, who might not notice these things.
 
Note that not all 10% service charges are discretionary. Most places clearly state that 'for parties of 6 or over a 10% service charge will be added to the bill' on the menu. I don't see any element of discretion there.
 
It seems from this thread that restaurants are beginning to behave in the same manner as other institutions who say 'tick the box if you do not wish other material to be sent to you'. Forget to tick the box and you're inundated with junk mail.

I think it's a bit rich that a so called discretionary fee is already added on, leaving the onus on the consumer to have it removed.
 
ragazza said:
The 'discretionary' service charge really annoys me too.

A while ago, my family (8 adults) went for dinner to Eden. The bill came to 400E, and they gave themselves 40E service charge tip! I think that's scandalous - service would want to be really exceptional to warrant 40E!!

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Actually I hate service charges, but anything less than a 40 euro tip for this table of 8 is a bit scabby!
 
Jdwex - I dont think it's scabby to not want to pay 40E tip! That amount could buy a whole other dinner. As I said, service would want to be exceptional to deserve that, in my opinion. It should be down to the customer to decide what they want to pay, rather than the restaurant generously deciding for themselves.
 
Nobody likes to make a fuss after a meal - but it is warranted if levys are added to a bill.

It customers kicked up a fuss - such practices would end.
 
Vat is added to a bill in a restaurant. The rate is very high 22% (?) If a tip is added to your bill is the total then used to calculate the vat? If you buy drinks at the bar and these are added to your bill then you will pay the extra 22% vat for these alos. Does this happen?
 
I would have thought that bills from most restaurants were vat inclusive. If not they should state it on their menu. If this is the case, then, yes the tip is calculated on the vat. Never thought of that one.
 
ragazza said:
Jdwex - I dont think it's scabby to not want to pay 40E tip! That amount could buy a whole other dinner. As I said, service would want to be exceptional to deserve that, in my opinion. It should be down to the customer to decide what they want to pay, rather than the restaurant generously deciding for themselves.
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Would you be happy to pay €10 on a bill of €100 for two of you eating out? There's the same amount of work for the staff in serving your table of 8 as there would be for 4 tables of 2.
 
Seagull said:
Would you be happy to pay €10 on a bill of €100 for two of you eating out? There's the same amount of work for the staff in serving your table of 8 as there would be for 4 tables of 2.
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no i would not leave a tip of €10 for a table of 2 or indeed 8.
When I go out for a meal i am paying as part of the price of the meal the cost of selling me the goods (meal) and then supplying me with these goods (geting the food from the kitchen to my table)
its like buying a new car, the salesman asks what u want ,and supplies it ofr you, you dont agree to pay 15k for your car and then find service charge for salesman 1500 added to the cost.
If the service is good I may leave a few quid under the plate but it wouldn't be 10%.
 
Are there any restaurants you eat in regularly? If so, you might notice that you're not getting the best possible service at them. Word gets around the staff as to who among the regulars are good and bad tippers, and the service varies accordingly.
 
No. I do leave some money when I get great service otherwise why should I pay double for average service?
 
As I said I disagree with service charges, but generally tip about 10 to 15 %.
That said I can see why restaurants add SC to large tables. I have seen obnoxious tables run staff ragged and then stiff them.
 
i work in the restuarant business, and although i dont receive tips, on the bottom of our menus it states that service charge is at your disccretion...but a lot of people do tip even if service is terrible, i think its important to remember that the waiting staff rely on their tips as they are only paid minnimum wage
 
1stepatatime said:
i work in the restuarant business, and although i dont receive tips, on the bottom of our menus it states that service charge is at your disccretion...but a lot of people do tip even if service is terrible, i think its important to remember that the waiting staff rely on their tips as they are only paid minnimum wage
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Do you not think that if tipping wasnt standard practice then the restaurant would have to pay a decent wage to keep their staff.

I hear this comment wheeled out all the time by people in that industry. I know I wouldn't work in a place where I rely on people's goodwill. Very few people get tips for doing their job, I never have nor received bonuses. I work for my wage - and thats all i get. I dont want sympathy for that.

I have said before - I will happily tip where the Staff are going above and beyond their role - not for grumpy staff plopping a plate down in front of me.
 
1stepatatime said:
i work in the restuarant business, and although i dont receive tips, on the bottom of our menus it states that service charge is at your disccretion...but a lot of people do tip even if service is terrible, i think its important to remember that the waiting staff rely on their tips as they are only paid minnimum wage
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There are many other jobs where the minimum wage is paid and tipping is not practiced. Many years ago when waitressing in Paris tips were seen as a bonus and went straight into your pocket but were never expected and certainly I never relied on them. Today I will tip a good waiter/waitress according to service given and will not pay the discretionary service charge and have had to openly argue with a restaurant owner to have this removed.
 
1stepatatime said:
i think its important to remember that the waiting staff rely on their tips as they are only paid minnimum wage
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As stated by gauloise, I really take exception to this weak argument. Many, many other jobs pay minimum wage, and yet the people who work in them have no hope nor expectation of getting generous, and usually tax-free, tips.

As Jem stated, why on earth should I pay double for service, out of fear caused by a veiled threat that I might not get the service for which I am entitled as a paying customer the next time I happen to visit their establishment?

Other service providers don't get tips - when was the last time you tipped your doctor, your solicitor, your plumber, the bus driver etc - I similarly disagree with tipping hairdressers and taxi drivers.

IMHO it is unacceptable to expect a tip other than for exceptional service - prompt, polite, and attentive service is their job - why should they get paid twice for it?!

Oh, and vis the point about not getting great service if you are a regular in a place and don't tip - a) service by and large in Ireland is dreadful even with tips being lashed about the place and b) I wouldn't go back to a place if they gave bad service even once.
 
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