Dirty work politics

[lambdas]

If I am not able to fight the PIP and it gets started, can I cover myself through some insurance scheme to protect my mortgage payments? I don't plan on not passing the pip, and I am trying hard not to be put on it, but if, for example, they fail me regardless in, say, 3 or 6 months time, will that be covered under mortgage protection for involuntary unemployment?

 

[RedOnion]

will that be covered under mortgage protection for involuntary unemployment?

The vast majority of mortgage protection policies only cover death. There used to be 'payment protection insurance' policies available before the financial crash that covered illness or unemployment, but I don't think unemployment cover is available under any new policies.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

My problem with walking is that I have no savings as I put all my extra money into upping my mortgage payments with the bank to double so that I can clear it in under 5 years. I have 3.5 years left.

You should stop any overpayments if you are still making them.

You could talk informally to your lender about a repayment break as well. Most will offer options if you suffer a sudden loss of income. It is much better for everyone if you talk to them in advance rather than tell them after the event.

(Obviously we don't know anything more about your wider financial circumstances so this advice may not be relevant if other factors are at play).

 

[thedaddyman]

The tactics here being done by the company are odd, to say the least. Redundancy costs get amorotised over a period of years and any competent company can make them cost neutral over a period of time. So why they are taking this approach is frankly weird.

Do you have a set of objectives and have you had a review and what was the outcome of that review. Step back, is there any real basis for what they are saying? That can be a difficult question to ask yourself

Next, insist on everything in writing, read the company grievance policy and file a grievance. If you believe they are deliberately trying to get people to resign, don't. Lastly, get medical advise and manage your stress.

 

[messyleo]

If I am not able to fight the PIP and it gets started, can I cover myself through some insurance scheme to protect my mortgage payments? I don't plan on not passing the pip, and I am trying hard not to be put on it, but if, for example, they fail me regardless in, say, 3 or 6 months time, will that be covered under mortgage protection for involuntary unemployment?

A PIP typically lasts 3 months- if it hasn't started yet it means you have at least 4 months or so to look for a new job - this seems your best bet to put in train - no harm in putting out feelers anyway and testing the market. I would also advise legal / external HR advice in the meantime to plan a strategy - they will tell you what you need to do paperwork-wise to cover yourself and help you avoid falling into pitfalls that HR will try and get you to fall into

 

[Salvadore]

A few observations.

If you’re selected for a pip, and you don’t feel it’s justified, you could submit a grievance, the procedure for which should be outlined in your contract. If your grievance is not upheld, you could submit a claim to the WRC. It would be an unwise employer who would terminate your employment while this complaint was being administered.

In tandem, you could go along with the pip process, and be meticulous about receiving explanations about why you’re on the pip, the steps you need to take to improve, the performance metrics by which improvement would be judged etc. Reject any proposal that would depend on how your manager (or whoever’s decision it would be) “feel” about your performance. Insist on examples and for the opportunity to correct matters.

Also, if a company is using a pip process to get rid of people, it’s because they’re not willing to offer an exit package. There may be an opportunity to let it be known that you’re willing to walk if they make an acceptable offer and that, if not, you’ll fight the pip process tooth and nail.

I know some people would argue that you’d be better off walking away but the behaviour of the company in this instance is so blatantly outrageous that you might also regret not putting up some form of fight.

 

[ArthurMcB]

I also have recordings of my manager telling me she does not want to give it to me, but obviously, I cannot use that towards my claim as I did not get consent

I think you can use such recordings. The law in ireland allows single party consent....i think. A quick google will confirm

 

[messyleo]

It depends. You can make the recording but it may still be deemed inadmissible or there may be a work policy which prohibits it overriding the single party consent.

I take salvadore's point about putting up a fight (I was of that mind myself) but honestly having taken on HR myself - when they have a strategy in mind there is no point taking them on - they do what it takes to get the outcome they want and are able to cover it up however they like. It's the way the world and HR works. Get out ASAP would be my advice before it causes more damage to you and gets in on you and your head. A solicitor's letter could put the wind up them though and test if they are serious - if they persevere it would be a big red flag to leave and move on, they could realise they are up against somebody who might put up a fight and drop it and move on to somebody else though, so maybe worth a shot

 

[ArthurMcB]

If its legal that might override any corporate policy?

If it is legal, which I think it is, then it should be admissable. On what grounds, @messyleo might it not be admissable?

 

[ClubMan]

will that be covered under mortgage protection for involuntary unemployment?

Not under the basic mortgage protection life insurance that most people take out and which, as mentioned above, generally only pay out on death or maybe in the case of terminal illness. If you have additional mortgage repayment protection insurance then maybe that will cover it, but most such policies only cover mortgage repayments in very restricted circumstances and for limited time periods - and are often very poor value for money.

 

[messyleo]

If its legal that might override any corporate policy?

If it is legal, which I think it is, then it should be admissable. On what grounds, @messyleo might it not be admissable?

No you have to comply with an employer's policy if it is a T&C of employment e.g. bullying policies, IT security policies etc. which may not have any basis in law. If an employer has a policy that states you can't make and use recordings without consent and you have signed up to it - tough,you signed up to the policy by working for them - if you didn't want to sign up to the policy, turn down the job. So while it may be legal - the employer has an open and shut case for disciplinary action including dismissal for gross misconduct for breaching their policy re recordings, so they will win that way instead.

See here re inadmissibility: https://www.crushell.ie/covert-audio-recordings-in-the-workplace

 

[Salvadore]

I don't think you can win in a situation like this.

If management decide that you have to go, then you are going to go.

So you need to talk to a specialist employment law solicitor now and build up your case for constructive dismissal.

I think the better option would be to negotiate an exit package.

Constructive dismissals are difficult to prove, financially draining and emotionally exhausting.