Different equity scheme after 20 yrs for AH in the Docklands?

[Starky]

Hi all..

anyone had any news about the mortages for the Docklands. I phoned once but got no info on when they will agree on the paperwork. Just that it is pending! still!

Nope, herd nothing. I have asked the bank if there was any news and they have not got back to be either. I have done my snag for the apartment organised all the paper work now, so there is nothing more I can do from my side now apart from wait. I am going to give it till the end of March come the beginning of April I am going to try and go down to the DDA and see if I can get some answers, I have no problem waiting, but It would be nice to know exactly what the problem is and how long it realistically is going to take to resolve it. Its now been 18 weeks since my initial offer letter. :-(

 

[gwysocka]

No news. I rang DDA the other day to get some answers. The only thing I was told was ' I DONT KNOW'. When i ask what exactly the problem with the banks is and why it takes so long the answer was : its a new scheme. Wow. Great explanation.This situation with no one knowing anything start being a bit rediculus. I dont mind waiting, I just would like to know how long more. My actual lease will expire in 2 months, and I dont know if extend my stay and if so for how long. I need to know whats going on to organize things. After 18 weeks from getting offer letter at least some kind of letter with some update would be good.

Hi all..

anyone had any news about the mortages for the Docklands. I phoned once but got no info on when they will agree on the paperwork. Just that it is pending! still!

 

[statusassign]

I dont mind waiting, I just would like to know how long more. My actual lease will expire in 2 months, and I dont know if extend my stay and if so for how long. I need to know whats going on to organize things. After 18 weeks from getting offer letter at least some kind of letter with some update would be good.

The lease on my apartment came up for renewal and I managed to renegotiate a 6 month lease with the letting company. So this takes me up to August. Should be plenty of time for things to get sorted out. Right! LOL.

I snagged the apartment last week, not much to do, really happy with the finish and now with all paperwork done all I can do too is wait. For some reason I am envisioning mid-summer as a date when contracts will be signed.

Anyhows if I hear any news I will post it here!

 

[Starky]

statusassign, gwysocka :

EBS were on to me today, Apparently the legal “discussions” are on going. The official stand as of today is that only IIB and EBS will be lending this time around. Again the bank is as cagey as to what exactly is going on as the DDA are. They all seem to know, but wont tell us what it is. The mad part is we are the ones who will be paying back the loans for 30 years, I would have though we had a right to know. It seems to me as if they are arguing over the final contracts. Apparently the new business team from EBS are supposed to be meeting with the DAA again tomorrow so there may be some more news after that. Until then the wait continues. Not much more then we already knew but I any news is better then no news.
I am moving out of my apartment back home at the end of this week, so it will be back to a life of communing for me for a while anyway …

 

[statusassign]

statusassign, gwysocka :

EBS were on to me today, Apparently the legal “discussions” are on going. The official stand as of today is that only IIB and EBS will be lending this time around. Again the bank is as cagey as to what exactly is going on as the DDA are. They all seem to know, but wont tell us what it is. The mad part is we are the ones who will be paying back the loans for 30 years, I would have though we had a right to know. It seems to me as if they are arguing over the final contracts. Apparently the new business team from EBS are supposed to be meeting with the DAA again tomorrow so there may be some more news after that. Until then the wait continues. Not much more then we already knew but I any news is better then no news.
I am moving out of my apartment back home at the end of this week, so it will be back to a life of communing for me for a while anyway …

Hi Starky.

I was in touch with them today too and was told that it was all about the finer details. The stumbling block for the banks appears to be (as I was told again) that the DDA are insisting that they are on the deeds of the property along with the bank and the purchaser. This, I gather is "unknown" and for that reason it is taking a long time for the banks to prepare the legal paperwork and agree terms, a question of crossing their t's I guess. ( By the by I wonder what having the DDA on the deeds means for us as purchasers. Maybe it has something to do with them having the first preference option if the apt to put on the market in the future?)

Like you I am finding the lack of information frustrating but will have to wait too.
I wasn't told about the meeting tomorrow so thanks for that bit of news and fingers crossed.
Good luck with the move back to the old family home. Lets hope its not for long!

 

[Starky]

Hi Starky.

I was in touch with them today too and was told that it was all about the finer details. The stumbling block for the banks appears to be (as I was told again) that the DDA are insisting that they are on the deeds of the property along with the bank and the purchaser. This, I gather is "unknown" and for that reason it is taking a long time for the banks to prepare the legal paperwork and agree terms, a question of crossing their t's I guess. ( By the by I wonder what having the DDA on the deeds means for us as purchasers. Maybe it has something to do with them having the first preference option if the apt to put on the market in the future?)

Like you I am finding the lack of information frustrating but will have to wait too.
I wasn't told about the meeting tomorrow so thanks for that bit of news and fingers crossed.
Good luck with the move back to the old family home. Lets hope its not for long!

If we end up with this arrangement I will be getting my solicitor to go over the contracts with a fine tooth comb before I sign up to anything. In theory if they are mentioned on the deeds as joint owners then as far as I know they will have a say over what we can do with the property, much as if you had bought it with a third party. I have herd of arrangements like this between friends and family buying houses but I am not sure sue I am comfortable being a joint owner with the council. For example both joint owners of a property would have access rights to the property, so could the council theoretically demand access? What rights will they have on their half of the property? Sounds mad but think about it for a minute. I wonder is there any provision in the legislation for this kind of set up? Maybe the DDA are obscuring the Affordable housing legislation to their own end. It all sounds really dogey and is beginning to put me off a bit to be honest. I guess I will have to wait to see the contracts before I can make any kind of an educated decision on all of this.

 

[blobert]

The brochure of new Affordable properties arrived yesterday; it contained details of the Docklands scheme on the back of the update section.

Basically you and DDDA are co-owners of the apartment, assuming the apartment is worth €500,000 they own 50% and you own 50% (you buy your half at a price of €250,000).

Now if you sell your apartment any time in the 1st 10 years DDDA get 50% of the selling price. This seems similar to the DCC scheme, though there is no mention that you could loose out badly in a negative equity situation. From years 10-20 the % amount that DDA owns decreases. At 15 years if you sell you get 75% of the purchase price and they 15%. At the end of 20 years you own the entire property.

The bit I’m confused by says that “if you decide to sell your property, DDDA must be given the first option to purchase your share of the property”. Not sure what this means, who is buying the place if this happens, DDDA or someone else?

This is just an outline of the scheme and I may be missing out on some of the detail but at 1st glance it seems a worse deal than the DCC scheme.

I’d imagine the hold up is that the banks assumed that the same scheme would be being used and now DDDA want to change it and have their name down as co-owner. This was not made clear in the brochure from June 2007 (the last draw), it makes no mention of there being a different scheme.

I’m a bit worried by this. My girlfriend was offered a 2 bed apt in the Docklands that seemed great. But realistically we would be likely to live there for about 10 years tops, and at this point if we were to sell we would seemingly have to sell our 50% to DDDA. How would this work, assuming someone is willing to buy the place for €500,000 then would DDDA just give us €250,000 and then own the place entirely? Would you just get the placed valued and they then give you half of what it’s worth. This is the part I am wary of.

Anyway, if anyone has opinions on this let me know. I think the fact that this draw was from nearly a year ago and people still don’t know what they are signing up for, let alone when they could move in is pretty terrible.

 

[Starky]

The brochure of new Affordable properties arrived yesterday; it contained details of the Docklands scheme on the back of the update section.

Basically you and DDDA are co-owners of the apartment, assuming the apartment is worth €500,000 they own 50% and you own 50% (you buy your half at a price of €250,000).

Now if you sell your apartment any time in the 1st 10 years DDDA get 50% of the selling price. This seems similar to the DCC scheme, though there is no mention that you could loose out badly in a negative equity situation. From years 10-20 the % amount that DDA owns decreases. At 15 years if you sell you get 75% of the purchase price and they 15%. At the end of 20 years you own the entire property.

The bit I’m confused by says that “if you decide to sell your property, DDDA must be given the first option to purchase your share of the property”. Not sure what this means, who is buying the place if this happens, DDDA or someone else?

This is just an outline of the scheme and I may be missing out on some of the detail but at 1st glance it seems a worse deal than the DCC scheme.

I’d imagine the hold up is that the banks assumed that the same scheme would be being used and now DDDA want to change it and have their name down as co-owner. This was not made clear in the brochure from June 2007 (the last draw), it makes no mention of there being a different scheme.

I’m a bit worried by this. My girlfriend was offered a 2 bed apt in the Docklands that seemed great. But realistically we would be likely to live there for about 10 years tops, and at this point if we were to sell we would seemingly have to sell our 50% to DDDA. How would this work, assuming someone is willing to buy the place for €500,000 then would DDDA just give us €250,000 and then own the place entirely? Would you just get the placed valued and they then give you half of what it’s worth. This is the part I am wary of.

Anyway, if anyone has opinions on this let me know. I think the fact that this draw was from nearly a year ago and people still don’t know what they are signing up for, let alone when they could move in is pretty terrible.

That little bit of marketing on the DDA scheme was all any of us had to go on. It is starting to become clear that the DDA scheme is radically different from the general AH scheme.

As far as I know if you were to sell the place in the first 10 years you would have to had over 50% of what ever it sold for. That’s fair enough, I have no issue with that, as in fairness we are getting 50% discounts.

After that no one really knows what is going on with it. no one knows what the DDA are trying to do with their scheme, what legal constraints they are trying to impose on us the purchasers.

I am my self extremely wary of this whole thing, I will be honest with you.
That said, as we don’t officially know what’s going on we are, as is human nature, attempting to draw our own conclusions. Until I have a copy of the contracts for my solicitor to go over and read myself I really cant be sure what to make of it all. I would suggest that any one involved in this scheme be very very wary of what they are signing up for, make sure to get independent legal advise.

Lets face it, even the banks who are expert mortgage lenders are having a problem with this scheme, which makes me nervous. What makes me more nervous is the fact that the banks in general tend to have their own agenda, and I am sure we are the last people they are worrying about.

As much as I like the apartment I will refuse to sign anything that restricts my rights further then someone on any other DCC AH scheme, even if that means I cant complete the sale, but hopefully it wont come to that.

What’s more I will be returning a preference form for the next lot of draws, as I am not overly confident of the current outcome of this situation.

 

[gwysocka]

What’s more I will be returning a preference form for the next lot of draws, as I am not overly confident of the current outcome of this situation.

Starky just wondering did you get the latest newsletter that came out this week??As we are involved in the DDA scheme already??

 

[Starky]

Starky just wondering did you get the latest newsletter that came out this week??As we are involved in the DDA scheme already??

I did get it alright.
Until I have agreed to the contracts and signed on the dotted line I *think* we can stay on the list.
I reckon I am goinng to put it in again just incase all this messing with the DDDA goes sour. I am sure it will work its slef out in the end.

 

[zephyro]

I did get it alright.
Until I have agreed to the contracts and signed on the dotted line I *think* we can stay on the list.
I reckon I am goinng to put it in again just incase all this messing with the DDDA goes sour. I am sure it will work its slef out in the end.

I'm of the same mind, didn't get the newsletter yet though. At this rate we might have moved into a DCC place before the DDDA sort themselves out!

 

[statusassign]

I think I will do the same thing, although I haven't received a newsletter yet. Might pop down to the offices and pick one up just in case.

A friend has recently been offered an apartment down in the Docklands and concerned about the unknown implications of having the DDDA on the deeds of the property ran it by an estate agent friend of his....who's opinion was...don't go near it!

I am going to try and get in touch with him and find out exactly why they said that.

I think my main concern is with the DDDA insisting on having first option on the resale of the property. The main question and concern I have is will they produce their own valuation for what they say the property is worth at that time and will it be binding on us (like their present unrealistic valuation!) or will the purchase price be based on what the property could actually fetch on the open market?
I imagine it will be the former. A couple of weeks ago I received their valuation for the property I am hoping to purchase and it is well over any realistic market value....but naturally gives them a higher claw-back percentage.
Now my intention is to live in the property, don't really see myself moving out of the city, but life changes and who knows what will occur in the future...
It's maddening not to be able to obtain this information from the DDDA themselves. All of this should be completely transparent! I think they are treating us shabbily.
Starky: I just saw your post where you mentioned that the DDA have re-valued your property and came in with a lower (more realistic) figure. Go figure, mine came in higher than was mentioned in the newsletter!

 

[Starky]

A friend has recently been offered an apartment down in the Docklands and concerned about the unknown implications of having the DDDA on the deeds of the property ran it by an estate agent friend of his....who's opinion was...don't go near it!

Yea, I am very concerned about this my self. For me this could be a deal breaker. If I am forced into a corner where it’s a case of legal advice ending up, “sign that and you are signing your rights away” then I will walk away from the purchase. I will be really disappointed if that happened, but I am only going to be a first time buyer once, and I do not intend painting my self into a corner if you get me and to be honest the open market is really Turing in my favour.

I think my main concern is with the DDDA insisting on having first option on the resale of the property. The main question and concern I have is will they produce their own valuation for what they say the property is worth at that time and will it be binding on us (like their present unrealistic valuation!) or will the purchase price be based on what the property could actually fetch on the open market?
I imagine it will be the former.

This is one of many concerns that I have about this shared deed situation. I want to know other things like
will the council have access rights to the properties?
Will the council have any say over who I may or may not want to rent a room to?
Will the council be interfering in anyway with my ownership of the property?
what does being listed on the deeds of a property actually mean? In practice?
Why do they want to be on the deeds when DCC never bothers to do the same?
If the DDDA is a joint owner of my property will they be paying half my management fees for me? Ok that’s a bit of humour, but in all fairness the repercussions of being a joint owner with the council are endless ….

The list is getting longer as I am thinking about the whole thing. :-(

A couple of weeks ago I received their valuation for the property I am hoping to purchase and it is well over any realistic market value....but naturally gives them a higher claw-back percentage.
Now my intention is to live in the property, don't really see myself moving out of the city, but life changes and who knows what will occur in the future...
It's maddening not to be able to obtain this information from the DDDA themselves. All of this should be completely transparent! I think they are treating us shabbily.
Starky: I just saw your post where you mentioned that the DDA have re-valued your property and came in with a lower (more realistic) figure. Go figure, mine came in higher than was mentioned in the newsletter!

The DDDA have listed my apartment as being worth 470. I have had independent valuations done and they are all coming in above that figure. I honestly thought it was worth some where in the region of 420 -440, then again I am not a professional valuator so my valuation was total guesswork. Initially I was worried that they were gong to value it at 550 and then it was only going to be worth 420 or something mental like that. For me anyway the valuation and the claw back all seem very fair, so at least that’s something.

I can’t believe that your apartment has been valued at a higher price then the FMV listed in the original news letter, that’s just mad. Do you mind posting the various figures?
My place is a two bed in forbes quay.

 

[statusassign]

The DDDA have listed my apartment as being worth 470. I have had independent valuations done and they are all coming in above that figure. I honestly thought it was worth some where in the region of 420 -440, then again I am not a professional valuator so my valuation was total guesswork. Initially I was worried that they were gong to value it at 550 and then it was only going to be worth 420 or something mental like that. For me anyway the valuation and the claw back all seem very fair, so at least that’s something.

I can’t believe that your apartment has been valued at a higher price then the FMV listed in the original news letter, that’s just mad. Do you mind posting the various figures?
My place is a two bed in forbes quay.

Hi Starky.

On the AHP 2007 newsletter the 2 bed apartments market value is listed at €424,000 - €485,000. Maybe they made a mistake and they are quoting me for a 3 bed apt?
My impression is that the Forbes Quay development is of a higher spec. than Longboat Quay (initial FMV in newsletter reflected that) so I would have imagined that your apt would have had a higher valuation than mine, both 2 bed apts, similiar sq. ft. Puzzling!
By the way how did the people who did your valuation gain access to the property? I suggested to my bank that once I had paid the deposit that they should pay a visit for mortage purposes but I have heard nothing since.

 

[Starky]

On the AHP 2007 newsletter the 2 bed apartments market value is listed at €424,000 - €485,000. The letter I received from the DDA lists the value of my 2 bed apt. as €590,000!

Good lord, that definitely sounds like a mistake, I would get on to them and find out what the heck they are talking about. There is no way a two bed apartment with out parking is worth that.

My impression is that the Forbes Quay development is of a higher spec. than Longboat Quay (initial FMV in newsletter reflected that) so I would have imagined that your apt would have had a higher valuation than mine, both 2 bed apts, similiar sq. ft. Puzzling!

Yea, I’ve been in it a few times alright and apart from the few usual snag items the fit out of it is of a very high standard. I literally need to put in floors, buy a bed and couch and I could move in immediately, the rest of it is totally finished, to a very good standard.

By the way how did the people who did your valuation gain access to the property? I suggested to my bank that once I had paid the deposit that they should pay a visit for mortage purposes but I have heard nothing since.

Get on to the estate agents, they are holding the keys to the place, I can PM you their email addresses if you like, they seem happy to grant access to the apartments if they happen to be down there doing snags or what ever.

Definitely get on to the DDA, I can also PM you the contact email address of the perpson dealing with the AH in the DDA, drop her a line and ask her what planet the DDA are on with a valuation of 590!!! Has to be a mistake …….

The estate agent was actually on to me today looking for my solicitors details, so I wonder if that is because things are going to start moving soon? Who knows!.

 

[Starky]

I was wondering if any one had been in touch with the their bank or the DDA? I was unable to contact them so I decided to chance my arm with the estate agent. I figured she may yield some more information.
I asked her about the legal hold ups and she seemed to think what ever they were they had been Ironed out. I can’t get hold of the girl from EBS to confirm at the moment, so I was wondering if any one else had any more information about this?

Also she told me that the developer had begun to address the snag lists in long boat, and that they would most likely be starting on Forbes quay then in about 2/3 weeks. She reckoned that there would be little or no movement sale wise till at least the middle of June.
So my next best guess at a closing date would be the first week of July. Pending more information to back this up though it’s a pure guess.

 

[gwysocka]

I was wondering if any one had been in touch with the their bank or the DDA? I was unable to contact them so I decided to chance my arm with the estate agent. I figured she may yield some more information.

Starky,

I got a call from the broker 2 weeks ago. I was told that issuses with banks are solved,and things will start moving from now on. That was two weeks ago. Since that time - i havent heard anything. No news. Probably nothing has changed. I try to contact DDA on monday anyway.

 

[dougiehowlet]

God only knows when they will sort it out. I would prepare your self for the worst. I reckon we will be doing well to get keys in may or even june. I asked the estate agent to give me a brutal honest answer about dates to close, and that is more or less what she told me. Remember we are buying the apartments from the council and not a builder. The council is under no real pressure to sell the apartments so in true government style the sales will drag on well into the summer. Makes me laugh,when I got the initial offer letter last november it said "we will hope to close the sale with in 10 weeks of this letter" that was 14 weeks ago! I spent the next few weeks stressing about having to take on a mortgage so soon.I am not complaining however, I dont mind if it takes a while, every month it takes is more money in the bank for stuff for me to put in the place!
I am gearing up for a june completion.

For information, its not just Govt who delay sales....we are over 12 months late with the purchase of an apartment...we were in it to measure 5 months ago, and only looking to close in next few weeks. In my mind, you are doing very well...Hope it closes in June as planned.

Also, renting at the moment in Longboat quay. Its a great location. Built in storage is just ok, so when fitting out try to consider whats the best storage option