Did someone say "The Peace Process is almost complete&q

Re: Spinning away.....

I back up my statements with evidence (i.e. appropriate links in this case)...unlike Hugh Orde who provides none, and Rabbit who simply ignores the facts.

As to wanting everyone to agree with my point of view...I couldn't give a halfpenny damn what you believe, there are the blind and then there are those who refuse to see.
But I do reserve the right to challenge lies and fabrication.

Re: Well, well, well

Asi, let's get one thing straight, the IRA dunnit. Even the Sunday Business Post (almost as republican as An Phoblacht) accepts that. Even poor old Grizzly is saying things like "if the IRA didn't tell him about their plans, it is very serious...". Not so sure any more is he? And what about the IRA - no public denial from P O'Neill - all we have is Grizzly and Marty's statement that the IRA told them they didn't do it - I am sure that's what they did say.

Come on, Asi, even you initially accepted that it was the IRA though on the somewhat dubious argument that Prods wouldn't be clever enough, I think the PSNI have more evidence than that!

Re: Did someone say "The Peace Process is almost comple

So you think your links are unbiased , Asimov ? You use them to back up your argument.

I can tell you right now they are as biased as the words from a drunken provo on a Saturday night, or a drunken UVF man for that matter. Look up your link on "Paisley", for example.
The main website that this article is taken off is an extreme republican website. At the beginning it says " Failte . This website is dedicated to the Nationalist people of the six counties. Their treatment at the hands of an Anti-Catholic Police Force and British Army thugs goes largely un-noticed by the world's media as a result of some very clever British propaganda" This website is where you get your links which you provided for Paisley, the orange order etc etc.


As a citizen of the republic who has spent time in N. Ireland and who has friends there from both sides of the fence, I can tell you that it is your website links which are propaganda, even though they are hosted on yahoo geocities. Much of what is on your provo type website is untrue, much is taken out of context or misquoted. If this is the information on which you base your opinions, then no wonder your views are as undemocratic and extreme as they are.

Rabbit Rabbit

Ahh jeez lads, come on. Lets have some decommissioning. :lol

Re: Rabbit Rabbit

My sentiment exactly. Well said.

Return to Reason

Sooooooo........? Irrespective of who stole the unusable dosh...........if any of the contributors here were in the shoes of the man George Bush calls Bertie Acorn how would you get the peace process back on track?

Re: Return to Reason

Unusable dosh ? A lot of it is in used notes. A lot of it has possibly been laundered by now. To get the peace process back on track the IRA have to do what everyone wants them to do : to make at least a significant gesture on decommissioning, and to show it is serious by proving ( for example by photos or videpo ) decommissioning has taken place.

Re: Peace process

Marie, the peace process is well on track and probably for the first time on a sensible track. The people of NI can look forward to a period of relative stability under direct rule from London and little chance, at least for the time being, of further concessions to recalcitrant criminals and terrorists.

It seems highly unlikely, given all that has happened, that the IRA will resume a campaign which by 1994 was going nowhere and besides their volunteers are only out on licence - they have an awful lot to lose by resuming their terrorist outrages - they must content themselves with low level criminality in their fiefdoms. There isn't a Fenian's chance on the Shankill of a resumption of street protest and the uprising of the Catholic community, they know they never had it so good.

If what you really meant Marie is what should be done to get the appeasement process back on track - absolutely nothing IMHO.

illusion and reality

That suggestion was intended as a means of halting the mud-slinging, actually! However that appears to be an impossibility. Is it possible for individuals and groups with such entrenched and bitter feelings towards "the other" that a small territory can revert to normality by fiat of the spindoctors (and here I restrain myself advisedly from mentioning the other "Doctor")! The reality is that the last thirty years have wreaked havoc on the social contract in Ireland.

We have the precedent of the effects of the Treaty of Versaille in fuelling Germany's hubris and aggression in WWII. Who was it who said "It's not important who wins the war; what is important is who wins the peace".

Conflict cannot end but honourably. There is no honour but rather degradation if one tribe/group/faction whatever you want to name them continues to hurl insult and abuse and hold the "other" responsible.

I love and value my country and have a lot to do with and for it whilst living where my "next-door neighbour" is a garrison of 5,700 British soldiers, some of whom are personal friends. The world is a complex place. I often feel despairing that the horror and hatred around Partition will simply go "underground" whilst this issue will move out of the journalistic spotlight. Maturity involves taking responsibility and taking thought; conflict and hate need the work of being articulated and processed. My heroes are those women and men (a number of whom I am honoured to call friends) who work quietly and determinedly for reconciliation. An Israeli Jewish colleague works to bring individual Jews into dialogue with Germans........and Palestinians into dialogue with Israeli Jews! This kind of reconciliation is the most difficult and delicate enterprise and is gruellingly difficult. Making something

Perhaps what is redundant is the antagonistic stance. Were that to be dissolved all else follows. If antagonism and the retaliatory impulse continue in peoples' hearts public rituals, press conferences, and the smashing up of weapons do not matter, nor will it matter whether they are photographed!

May you prosper!

Re: illusion and reality

Marie wrote "the smashing up of weapons do not matter, nor will it matter whether they are photographed"

Well, most people think it is wrong for terrorist groups to have illegial high powered weapons and explosives, especially on the scale that has been revealed by Libya. If Sinn Fein wants to retain its place in democratic company it should use its influence to get the IRA to disband. If weapons are used it does matter. If they are photographed showing they cannot be used ,it does matter.

illusion and reality

You twist my words and miss my point and represent me as condoning violence when I have very carefully said the opposite!

Have a look at the dozens of posts since the beginning of this thread and then direct me to any one of those which condones murder violence or lawbreaking/evading.

My last post cogently expressed my view that not any superficial populist or bodge-solution to the rancour and destruction in Ireland was sufficient. It indicated that after decomissioning comes the even more difficult and urgent task of change of heart and language of all concerned.

There appears to be little understanding in some quarters that destroying the weapons is the start of the peace-process not the end.

This is my final post on this subject.

Re: illusion and reality

Marie said "You twist my words and miss my point and represent me as condoning violence when I have very carefully said the opposite!"

Sorry Marie, but I quoted directly from you ,and I therefore doid not twist your words. I think you know your were wrong in what you said about decommissioning and photographs. I did not represent you as condoning violence, and please do not accuse me of doing so.

You say "There appears to be little understanding in some quarters that destroying the weapons is the start of the peace-process not the end." The peace process has being in existence for quite a good few years now. What has the Good Friday Agreement and all the other works over the years being about isf it was not a peace process. The peace process is not something which will begin or end with destroying the weapons. Nobody ever suggested it was.

Anyway, we both condemn violence, and this is my last post on this subject also.