Did someone say "The Peace Process is almost complete&q

Re: Paisley

Madonna said "My ( Madonna's) friends and relations, almost universally SF supporters, were of one mind. There can never be a foto. "If SF concede a foto, I will never vote for them again" was a typical comment"

Why do they not get Sinn Fein / IRA to give up some semtex, like the type that was used in the Omagh bomb, so , if they are against a photo ? I feel sorry for such people. The rest of us have had to endure the photos , not of guns and semtex being cut up / destroyed, but of bodies and people with horrific injuries. What sick people.

Re: Paisley

Rabbit, I've made several attempts to get you to listen and think, but you only want to hear the sound of your own voice.

You dismiss anyone who agrees with SF in any respect as a 'Shinner'. I asked you what you think makes someone a 'Shinner' and you never responded. I tried to get you to think about it in terms of your own support for Paisley...but you still didn't get it.

The point is...when you label me a Shinner, or a Terrorist sympathiser, or whatever the hell else...why are you surprised or annoyed when I label you a Rabid Paisleyite.

I'm no 'shinner', any more than you are a paisleyite.
I don't agree with everything SF has ever said or done, any more than you'll admit to agreeing with everything Paisley has ever said or done.

Its about time you dropped the stupid demonising attitude to all republicans and recognise that there are good people on both sides trying to sort this mess out.

Re: Paisley

Quote "Rabbit, I've made several attempts to get you to listen and think, but you only want to hear the sound of your own voice. You dismiss anyone who agrees with SF in any respect as a 'Shinner'. I asked you what you think makes someone a 'Shinner' and you never responded"

Rubbish. When / where did I even use the word Shinner?
Madonna says his friends and relations vote SF - does that not make them SF supporters? If someone says they agree with most Sinn Fein policies, more so than those of any other political party, then are they not a Sinn Fein supporter?




Quote I tried to get you to think about it in terms of your own support for Paisley...but you still didn't get it.

You still seem to think I support Paisley ? I never even voted for him or his party in my life. However, when untrue and unfair thing are said about somebody, I would stand up for them, just as I would for any other politician. I am lucky in that I am not burdened with the hatred you and some other people have for him.

I'm no 'shinner', any more than you are a paisleyite.

Really ? So you admit I am not a paisleyite - and you now say you are not a "shinner" ( your word, not mine ).

Quote I don't agree with everything SF has ever said or done, any more than you'll admit to agreeing with everything Paisley has ever said or done.

Well I suppose perhaps nobody would ever totally agree with everything anybody has said or done.

Its about time you dropped the stupid demonising attitude to all republicans
Who said I had a demonising attitude to all republicans? You have put two and two together and got five - or one million and five - again. I have grown up with, lived with, slept with, worked with, voted for republicans ( in the broadest sense of the word ). I will not tell you what I am , but it should be clear I am not a Paisleyite or a Sinn Fein supporter.



Quote and recognise that there are good people on both sides trying to sort this mess out. At last. I cannot believe that you said that, after some of the things you said earlier. I shake your hand and I salute anyone who can put the past behind them and work for a peaceful future together.

Just one question : why do you not support the calls for the release of the murderers of Jerry McCabe ?

Re: Omagh bombers

Rabbit, I see you are finding the absurdities of the Northern situation a bit hard to follow. It is not a requirement, even of the good doctor, that the Continuity/Real IRA should decommission in order for Grizzly and his mates to get their Mercs.

What is needed in the case of the Omagh bombers is clear to everyone. Channel 4 identified the culprits, an identification that was unchallenged despite the enormous damages that could be earned if disproved. They're guilty alright and alive and well in God's wee Republic. It is impossible to convict these men through the normal process because of massive intimidation. What the South should do is set up a special non-jury court of three judges, try these men and then lock them up for life.

Bertie should then send a letter to the people of Omagh giving a Taoiseac's solemn promise that they will never be released. On second thoughts, we can dispense with the solemn promise.

Re: Omagh bombers

I agree with most of what you say, Madonna. I know that getting the real / continuity to disarm / decommission would be practically impossible, but what the Good Friday Agreement does expect, and what most people would expect, is for the provos to decommission at least a significant quantity of semtex / arms. Most people do not think this has really happened yet, for whatever reason. It would be a badly needed gesture of goodwill on the provos part, after all the incidents which proved they were not inactive. They still could have lots of arms and explosives that nobody else knows about, such is their arsenal, and the rest of us , including Dr. Paisley, have given our word we would trust them IF they showed us photos of arms they had destroyed / decommissioned. The longer they play word games and pussy foot around with peace the more likely it is that dissident republicans / ex provos may steal / use these some of these arms and explosives. I do not think any of us want that.

Re: Well, well, well

well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well,well, well, well, well, well,well, well, well,well,well, well, well,

so it was the IRA after all!

Re: Well, well, well

Yeah, just what the dogs on the street were saying.
But then again, what did you expect ? Adams says he was never in the IRA . We all know he was. Does anyone believe Sinn Fein except themselves ?

Rubbish, Where's the proof?

So the police comissioner of NI has decided that, in spite of his lacking any hard evidence or any sort of a lead - 'the IRA dunnit'. :lol
I won't claim to be surprised to see an RUC man readying up his case, but its laughable to see the head of the PSNI at it, and in public too. Guilty until proven innocent? Evidence? Got a photograph perhaps? Nah...we don't need 'em...we JUST KNOW. :lol

Hey Madonna, did you see what Wilson was planning in 1974? Emergency evacuation from NI. The so called 'Doomsday scenario'...which YOU said the Brits would never contemplate.
If the South had moved on the border (as I revealed they were preparing to do) it seems now that there would have been no confrontation from Her Majesties Forces after all, but rather a quick handover of the keys and a grateful departure. Eat crow old boy.

Incidentally, I thought of you and laughed while I listened to that old 1974 William Craig interview played on RTE last Sunday in which, after much dancing, he finally blurted that 'the Protestant people' would be right to take up arms and murder innocent Catholics to bring down the power sharing executive and Sunningdale. Peaceful proddies me This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language.

I can see this whole thing falling apart now. I forecast Adams and McGuinness will find themselves losing control of the hardliners and headbangers. If that happens and splinter groups break away then violence might well break out again, and all this effort will have been wasted. Hope you enjoy the prospect of that outcome.
You've asked for it.

Re: Letter from Andytown

Actually, the good folk of Andytown are brimful with pride that the "boys" pulled this one off - and sure nobody was hurt - real Robin Hood stuff. The place is full of jokes as to what the 'RA are doing with the money. They feel a bit peeved that the likes of McGuinnes have to issue denials because of political pressure. Even the IRA have ceased issuing denials simply refering to attempts by securocrats :x to criminalise their volunteers.

What about Dermot "No Principles" Aherne. He tells us that this is a setback sure, but there has been far worse things done such as murder. Clearly Dermo has no problem whatsoever in negotiating with these bandits tomorrow even sharing power with them but he does recognise that those fusspots in the DUP will need more time.

Do spare a thought for the Castlerea 4. There they were with their hopes sky hi for Christmas release and then their mates betray them. These same mates probably commited even worse crimes than they did, got released under the Good Friday Surrender, and now can look forward to a life of luxury - and damn the Castlerea 4 as far as they are concerned - and in that I concur.

curiouser and curiouser

This is getting very weird. This morning's news here in the UK was full of prevarication. To journalist's question "Did the IRA rob the bank" the response is "There is a strong suspicion....." FOR HEAVENS SAKE!!!If there is evidence that the IRA did THIS bank robbery lets hear it! Next question the journalists ask is "Do you think the Sinn Feinn leadership were cognisant?" Response "We have every reason to believe the Sinn Feinn leadership wish to continue to develop towards power-sharing" WHAT???

The other news story which most resembles this is the "weapons of mass destruction" scam perpetrated by the present UK government on the electorate in justification for an unjustifyable invasion of Iraq.

One must learn to recognise the similarities, then frame-ups won't take the place of objective truth.

Asimov refers to the depressing prospect that if (and it is a big "if"!!) the IRA did the bank job it would indicate that perhaps the organisation is splintering into sub-groupings. In terms of organisational dynamics this is a common signal of dissolution of an institution. The "IRA" has always been a temporary institution materialised in response to perceived social threat. When the danger is past the organisation disperses. It is not good news if during that dissolution every act of every sector is used to delay the process of integration and stabilisation in Northern Ireland. It is not good news that these situations continue to be used by the hawks to vindicate their own bloodlust when the blood in question happens to be that of the community - most of whom, on both "sides" - have never been actively part of the conflict and who are heartily sick of it.

Re: curiouser and curiouser

Asomov said "So the police comissioner of NI has decided that, in spite of his lacking any hard evidence or any sort of a lead - 'the IRA dunnit'."

In fairness to the police commissioner I think he said there was evidence pointing in a certain direction, but they would not - as is their right or the right of any investagitive police force - not release this information at this point in time.

Quote " Hey Madonna, did you see what Wilson was planning in 1974? Emergency evacuation from NI. The so called 'Doomsday scenario'...which YOU said the Brits would never contemplate.
If the South had moved on the border (as I revealed they were preparing to do) it seems now that there would have been no confrontation from Her Majesties Forces after all, but rather a quick handover of the keys and a grateful departure."

Rubbish. As long as most people in Northern Ireland wanted to say in the UK, The UK would not desert them because of a scattering of terrorists. And the Irish army had no intention of actually invading N. Ireland - what a laugh.

Quote Peaceful proddies me This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language.

You cannot tar an entire community with the same brush. As we all know ( except yourself ) there are good and bad in both communities.


Quote You've asked for it.

No: if the peace process falls apart, it is the IRA that has asked for it.

Selective Memory

Memory is soooo selective, isn't it? Out of the blue, apropos a "suspicion", it is the IRA who are the cause of the peace process falling apart......and the Rev. Paisley's stance on photographs of weapons being destroyed - a mere few weeks ago the "cause" of the process de-railing - has disappeared.

The magic of bias!

Re: Selective Memory

The polls showed the vast majority of people in N. I. wanted proof of decommissing. As you say , memory is soo selective, if the IRA only offered some photos it would have moved the situation along. Why did they not ? Practically all other elected politicians except Sinn Fein backed Paisleys request for photos, and virtually all political parties in these islands ( except Sinn Fein again of course ) now seem to have accepted that the IRA had a hand in the Northern bank robbery.

I always maintained there were plenty of atrocities committed by both sides in the North, and there are good and bad on both sides. Would you agree Marie ? What about the magic of bias now ?

Re: Selective Memory

Actually, the good folk of Andytown are brimful with pride that the "boys" pulled this one off

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Madonna I think its far from Andersonstown you picked up on any such notion. Given your deeply held anti-Catholic / anti-Republican views I would consider it a highly dangerous place for you to go around soliciting anyones views on the IRA or its culpability...given it is inhabited mainly by Catholics and Republicans.

No, I think you've just been reading too much of Sam Smyths scribblings in the Indo.
Hell...maybe you are Sam Smyth, all that "Well Well Well" stuff...was that the famous Sam Smyth Stutter or just an outbreak of verbal (textual?) diahorrea?

Always remember Madonna...whatever the man on the street thinks...material proof is the decider. Anything else is just idle speculation and the devils handywork....as Big Ian would say.

In fairness to the police commissioner I think he said there was evidence pointing in a certain direction, but they would not - as is their right or the right of any investagitive police force - not release this information at this point in time.

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More verbal gymnastics from Rabbit.
I watched a BBC4 news program a few days ago in which four current affairs commentators - a Frenchman, a German, a Yank and a Brit - all expressed amazement and confusion (their words) at the press conference held by Orde. They all pointed out quite correctly that no Police Commisioner could possibly express the views he did without realising the impact they would have on the peace process and therefore without explicit clearance from Government. And given his lack of any shred of evidence to backup his assertions the only conclusion they could therefore draw was that the British Government - for some reason - was content to see the peace process derailed on a whim. This they found disturbing and counter productive...as do I.
I have no difficulty accepting the consequences for the peace process if Orde had an iota of evidence to back up his pronouncement, but without it - the simple bald fact stands - that he, with the concensus of the British Government, has arbitrarily set out to destroy the process.

Rubbish. As long as most people in Northern Ireland wanted to say in the UK, The UK would not desert them because of a scattering of terrorists....what a laugh.

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It appears you haven't been reading the just released documents from the period. Here's a link....the laughs on you.

Re William Craig: You cannot tar an entire community with the same brush.

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No? Who was Craig? Was he not the Home Affairs Minister in Stormont? A Government representative? A founding member and Leader of the far right Vanguard Party? Was it a One Man Party?
And what about Paisley, who also advocated taking up arms in 1974 to destroy the power sharing that Madonna erroneously asserted was already 'on the cards' in 1969?
What about the bigotted and sectarian Orange Order, its 75,000 membership and anti Catholic triumphalism? What about the UVF and UDA - the strong men that backed up the Loyalist leadership with their guns and bombs? What about the general Protestant population of NI who acted illegally against HM Government in 1974 and used [broken link removed] to shut the country down...all to make sure Taigs had NO SAY in the running of the state.
At what point do you remove the blinkers and recognise that the ingrained sectarianism of the Protestant establishment in NI was not just a misrepresentation of "isolated loonies" in the Loyalist camp?

Re: Selective Memory

Your links betray where you got much of you political indoctrination, Asimov. The usual sad old provo websites , another page ending with "Tiocaidh ar la" , another page from the workers solidarity movement etc.

You think anybody that does not agree with your extreme views is "anti-catholic and anti-republican". It is quite sad and perhaps the result of too much anti-English hatred fermenting in your mind over time. Perhaps you will get better, I hope you will.

Re: Selective Memory

Given your deeply held anti-Catholic / anti-Republican views I would consider it a highly dangerous place for you to go around soliciting anyones views on the IRA or its culpability...given it is inhabited mainly by Catholics and Republicans.

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In other words, agree with us or we will beat you up or worse.

Spinning away.....

Er, no Tommy...in other words you don't go around the seamier areas of Belfast, Dublin, Limerick, Glasgow, Birmingham - or elsewhere - looking for trouble.
Madonna suggests he does exactly that, which is patent rubbish.
Nice spin though!

So Rabbit, the BBC, Wikipedia and Geocities are now to be considered as Provo websites?

And are you suggesting that the 1974 UWC strike was a figment of MY imagination? Or that the recently released documents relating to British withdrawal are made up? By me perhaps? :lol

Interesting hypotheses.

You sure you're feeling alright?
Bit of a Monday hangover maybe?

Re: Spinning away.....

From reading through your posts on this topic Asimov, "spin" appears to be your middle name.

Re: Spinning away.....

You're just brainwashed Gabriel. Any notion which doesn't agree with the "Conventional Wisdom" or the "Party Line" in this country is heresy. Its shocking to most people that anyone would even DARE to argue against it, such is the level of conditioning by the media.

Personally, I think some balance is needed, and I'm providing it here.

Free your mind.

Re: Spinning away.....

If by balance you mean mocking everyone who doesn't agree 100% with your point of view and if by brainwashing you mean believing you're always right and everyone else is merely brainwashed into believing what they believe then you're right.