Maybe even the FAs are being duped or at worst engaging in wishful thinking. Certainly some of the backtesting illustrations are very seductive. A product that is shown to backtest successfully, providing 40%+, in 1,304 times out of 1,304, must be a winner even if that is a very flattering backtest. Even I, when I first saw this one knew to dismiss the backtesting results but I argued with myself that surely any self respecting index would have at least a 50% chance of being above its initial level in 5 years. But the reality is that this weirdly contrived index would appear to have a less than 20% chance of achieving that humble goal of being above water in 5 years.And who sells these products to the public Steven ?
I am sure you don't, but many financial advisors do. And it is difficult for members of the public to know what type of FA they are dealing with. One that sells perfectly legal products which are designed to profit their promoters, or one who would not do such a thing.
12 x 0.9 = 10.8. I think my calculator was running low in batteryColm/Duke,
Sorry if I'm being a bit slow on the draw here. I haven't looked that closely at the minutiae or perhaps picked up the detail in your posts correctly and wasn't aware of the average XD stocks being 25% rather than 50%, etc., etc.
Before I get into it - Duke, is 7.2% a typo?
Colm estimates 4.7%.Anyway let me try again please! I accept that I might be wrong - I'm just trying to figure out where (think dog with a bone). Thanks for your continued forbearance.
1. This silly index (SI) is made of stocks that have DYield of X% (Please tell me what X is)
Yes, they allow themselves up to 50% but there are months when there simply aren't that many available.2. Let's take it that dividends are paid twice yearly
3. On average, in each month, 25% of the stocks will be XD. (Could this be due to the clustering of dividends that Colm spoke about, i.e. close to 50% some months and close to 0% other months?)
That is all correct. And with Colm's 4.7% estimate that would give 7.1%. But the benchmark is itself a price only index and so suffers a drag versus a total return index of its dividend yield, which Colm reckons is 3.5% hence the relative drag versus its benchmark is 3.6%.4. On average and very crudely, etc. does it not follow that:
(a) The total monthly dividend would be X%, divided by 2 (because dividends are paid half-yearly) and then divided by 4 (because of the 25%). In simple terms, X%/8
(b) Wouldn't this X%/8 need to be multiplied by 12 to arrive at the annual impact? So, for example, if the DY of the stocks within SI is 4%, the annual impact would be c. 6%?
Yes that is the deal. You and I have no way of knowing the odds but if Paribas are pricing rationally their quants must reckon the chances of this are of the order of the throw of a 6 with a dice. Certainly not 1304 chances out of 1304!This is what I understand so far. If the total return, including dividends, of the stocks that are included in the Silly Index, is greater than c. 7.1% p.a. (on average) over the next 5 years, then the bet pays out.
So the question is - is this a 1 in 5 to 1 in 6 chance as described previously or is it better or worse than that? (I guess we are getting into expected returns, SDs and all that good stuff - but I'll happily be guided by you!). In this way, we'll be able to establish better the merits of this bet from the punter's perspective?!
Ok forgiven.You're right, Duke - I should not have written what I did. I just was frustrated with what I perceived was a response which did not address the question.
I asked myself "what are the actual odds?"
The product may, indeed, be merde……..but only if the odds are poor! If the odds are better than 1 in 5ish, then the odds may not be / are not, poor - especially so given the risk free (or least risk, if you will) alternative. By extension, certainly not reportable?
Thanks! They really are bringing them out thick and fast. Number 2 was only in February of this year.
OMG so they all touted that 0 out of 1,304 lost money and now thanks to Colm, they tell us 830 out of 2,609 would have lost money and even that is a misrepresentation as the pricing indicates over 80% would show a loss.Hours of fun:
I'm chuckling at this statement in some of the brochures and guides:
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In order to achieve a good price efficiency, the Index selects stocks with a low volatility and that are expected to pay a dividend in the coming month.
Is this really a Solactive product marketed and resold by BNP? It appears that Solactive conceived and operate the index, and possibly also the options supporting the bond pricing.
I was hoping it might be further back so that we could compare and contrast.
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