Ever thought that maybe the evasion of taxes by Bovale etc. could have led to funding shortfalls / cutbacks in building inspection services, which could have led to cutting corners knowing the chances of censure were low, which could have led to the tragic death of that worker?
Ever thought that maybe the evasion of taxes by Bovale etc. could have led to funding shortfalls / cutbacks in building inspection services, which could have led to cutting corners knowing the chances of censure were low, which could have led to the tragic death of that worker?
I think that's stretching things by any standard. Not even Pat Rabbitte would have come out with that. The Bailey's are no worse or better than any other tax evader that steals from the people of Ireland, be they a builder, a plumber, a solicitor or a doctor. If any poster here has ever done a nixer and trousered the cash they are guilty of the same crime, so it's just a case of being pi**ed-off because the Bailey brother are smarter than them.
The reason that people die on trolleys in A&E is because of under-funding but it is also because the service is badly run and the Triage nurse can't tell people to shag off home and go to their GP the next day. 22 million on top of the other 10 billion won't change that.
Absolutly not. I work in construction and the progress in safety over the past 6/7 has been incredible (but still a long way to go) The lack of inspection was nothing to do with finance or resourses it was the whole attitude of the time.
Im not sure which developer ubiquitousis talking about but anyway.... 9-10 years ago my cousin dies on a building site (charlotte quay) and it was pure health and safety neglience. Someone had died the year beforehand on another site by this developer and the next year another person died. All of his sites were closed for a few weeks and a severe H&S audit carried out. The developer offered my cousins fiance 10k pounds for her troubles. That was the price he put on a life. It would have bought a lot of barriers for his sites. So how someone can compare (and state it is worse!) tax evasion to loss of human life kinda puzzles.
Absolutly not. I work in construction and the progress in safety over the past 6/7 has been incredible (but still a long way to go) The lack of inspection was nothing to do with finance or resourses it was the whole attitude of the time.
Im not sure which developer ubiquitousis talking about but anyway.... 9-10 years ago my cousin dies on a building site (charlotte quay) and it was pure health and safety neglience. Someone had died the year beforehand on another site by this developer and the next year another person died. All of his sites were closed for a few weeks and a severe H&S audit carried out. The developer offered my cousins fiance 10k pounds for her troubles. That was the price he put on a life. It would have bought a lot of barriers for his sites. So how someone can compare (and state it is worse!) tax evasion to loss of human life kinda puzzles.
You know well I was not just talking about the Baileys - they were merely the example used by Ubiquitous to make his point regarding differing levels of moral bankruptcy. You can see equally well I said it was potentially a contributory factor, not the sole cause.
The culture under which people like the Baileys flourished, and under which certain political figures still seem to operate, contributed to massive shortfalls in public expenditure. The fact that they lived like kings, as did certain beloved political figures, lent the evasion of taxes (aka fraud on all of us) an air of respectability - as you point out, there is enormous undisclosed black market activity in this country, the Baileys being just one of the more glaring examples due to the size of their evasion over the years.
Your reference to the Bailey brothers being smarter than small-time tax evaders is facetious - they defrauded the state on a huge scale, pure and simple. Are small-time drug lords jealous because John Gilligan is smarter than them?
The HSE could happily burn €22 million with a mistaken coffee cup order. It is their profligacy with taxpayers cash that is the biggest contributory factor to hospital waiting lists - not tax evasion. Don't forget the settlement included penalties and interest, so the contribution would have been less if it was paid when due.
This is high moral ground grandstanding of a preposterous level. So every plumber and hairdresser doing Saturday nixers for beer money takes their cue from the activities of the Bailey brothers? The Bailey brothers lived like kings because they ran a very successful and profitable business. If it wasn't profitable their wouldn't have been any tax liability to evade.
The culture of tax evasion that arose in the eighties was a response to the punative taxes being charged. As the tax rate dropped so did the number of people evading.
The culture under which people like the Baileys flourished, and under which certain political figures still seem to operate, contributed to massive shortfalls in public expenditure. The fact that they lived like kings, as did certain beloved political figures, lent the evasion of taxes.............. an air of respectability
...the Baileys - they were merely the example used by Ubiquitous to make his point regarding differing levels of moral bankruptcy.
This is exactly my point, by FF allowing these guys (and perhaps other devlopment companies as mentioned by other posters) into the tent, they are saying you have done nothing wrong and we as the main party in Government we are happy to be seen with you. They are saying in effect Your standards are our standards. They should have the courage not to let them in and publicy say so!
ubiquitous has it ever occurred to you that a poster here might know more about one issue that another? and that is the reason that they mention one issue and not another. Maybe you should think about that?
My point is that it’s not a sliding scale of moral bankruptcy; it’s the same crime no matter what the scale. It’s just that some people are better at it than others. I make no distinction between the Baileys and a teacher doing a grind and pocketing the cash.You know well I was not just talking about the Baileys - they were merely the example used by Ubiquitous to make his point regarding differing levels of moral bankruptcy. You can see equally well I said it was potentially a contributory factor, not the sole cause.
It has also been argued that the black economy, and indeed bogus non-residential accounts, is the only thing that kept any money in the country in the 1980’s. That does not make their actions right but you are seeing links where there are none.The culture under which people like the Baileys flourished, and under which certain political figures still seem to operate, contributed to massive shortfalls in public expenditure. The fact that they lived like kings, as did certain beloved political figures, lent the evasion of taxes (aka fraud on all of us) an air of respectability - as you point out, there is enormous undisclosed black market activity in this country, the Baileys being just one of the more glaring examples due to the size of their evasion over the years.
I agree that they “defrauded the state on a huge scale, pure and simple”, why does this negate the reality that they were good at it?Your reference to the Bailey brothers being smarter than small-time tax evaders is facetious - they defrauded the state on a huge scale, pure and simple.
Room305 answered that one. Do you think it’s OK for small time drug dealers to pontificate about John Gilligan’s crimes just because he’s a better drug dealer than they are?Are small-time drug lords jealous because John Gilligan is smarter than them?
Is it to do with the fact that on one hand you have a very suave, PR- & media-friendly tycoon (albeit with a few skeletons in his cupboard) and on the other hand you have 2 guys who still look and sound like the small farmers they were before they hit riches?
Not a plausible explantion as he is not media friendly and never gives interviews. He also keeps a very low profile.. .
Did it ever occur to you that there his policy not to give interviews might just be a part of a clever media strategy? If I had been responsible for my own workers' deaths, I wouldn't give interviews either.
How can not giving interviews be part of a clever media strategy?
Ubiquitous has pointed out the posting guidelines and asked people to follow them. This is perfectly reasonable and by not doing so you are potentially leaving Brendan open to being sued for liable. This is grossly unfair.
If they have been convicted of the crime then how could it open you up to libel to name them?This might have been the case had this company not been successfully censured for health & safety breaches - in fact they have been, and they have been prosecuted and convicted.
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