Determining fault in a car accident is it not independently assessed

As if the world hasn’t thrown enough at me, tenant refusing to leave uncurable cancer another driver crashed into me recently, brand new car less than a week old.

I was stopped at red light, yellow box junction in front of me I left clear. The driver from behind me tried to either overtake me into the yellow box or come around me and turn left in yellow box, this happened simultaneously as the lights turned green as I moved forward and he drove into the front drivers side of my car. We pulled in afterwards call guards who did not attend and he agreed to pay costs for my car. Fast forward a week later when he heard costs just shy of €3k he stops communicating. I go to his insurance company and he is disputing liability.

If I claim off my own insurance and even if they recover funds from his insurance, I still lose no claims bonus. I am waiting on decision from his insurance company. What I don’t understand is third party’s insurance company make the decision if he is liable or not? Surely it should be independent?

His word against mine, I cannot locate any witness at present, I am hoping the damage on drivers side and his overtaking prove my case.

OGC222 said:

As if the world hasn’t thrown enough at me, tenant refusing to leave uncurable cancer another driver crashed into me recently, brand new car less than a week old.

I was stopped at red light, yellow box junction in front of me I left clear. The driver from behind me tried to either overtake me into the yellow box or come around me and turn left in yellow box, this happened simultaneously as the lights turned green as I moved forward and he drove into the front drivers side of my car. We pulled in afterwards call guards who did not attend and he agreed to pay costs for my car. Fast forward a week later when he heard costs just shy of €3k he stops communicating. I go to his insurance company and he is disputing liability.

If I claim off my own insurance and even if they recover funds from his insurance, I still lose no claims bonus. I am waiting on decision from his insurance company. What I don’t understand is third party’s insurance company make the decision if he is liable or not? Surely it should be independent?

His word against mine, I cannot locate any witness at present, I am hoping the damage on drivers side and his overtaking prove my case.

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Very sorry to hear of this happening to you.

Is it possible that there is any cctv of the junction and your incident?
If so, and you report the incident to the Gardaí perhaps they may be able to access it.

If there are cameras on business premises and you suggest to the other party about asking the Gardaí to access same the other party may change their tack.

It’s possible they may be liable to a charge of careless driving.
5 points and a fine. Easier to pay up.

I'm on the hunt for cctv footage its quite a busy junction beside shops. I'll drop into the garda today. Good point about the points and careless driving!

OGC222 said:

I'm on the hunt for cctv footage its quite a busy junction beside shops. I'll drop into the garda today. Good point about the points and careless driving!

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Before reporting to Gardaí I’d want to be 100% sure I don’t have any liability and I’d give the other party a last chance to do the right thing.

The Gardai will do nothing here, they won't request CCTV on your behalf.

In cases like this the insurance companies will agree among themselves how liability is apportioned, there is no independent body. Forget about no claims bonus for now, that's gone unless the other driver settles outside of insurance cover which sounds unlikely (it's not a no fault bonus). Outline what happened clearly using diagrams / Google Maps.

Leo said:

The Gardai will do nothing here, they won't request CCTV on your behalf.

In cases like this the insurance companies will agree among themselves how liability is apportioned, there is no independent body. Forget about no claims bonus for now, that's gone unless the other driver settles outside of insurance cover which sounds unlikely (it's not a no fault bonus). Outline what happened clearly using diagrams / Google Maps.

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I've written the report clearly and used google maps. I really want to keep my no claims bonus my insurance company said I will lose this if I claim through them. I believe I was 100% in the right, other vehicle came from behind being impatient.
My insurance are not involved for the moment I have lodged a claim against his and they are conducting the investigation. Maybe its a mistake I feel its very one sided.

Leo said:

The Gardai will do nothing here, they won't request CCTV on your behalf.

In cases like this the insurance companies will agree among themselves how liability is apportioned, there is no independent body. Forget about no claims bonus for now, that's gone unless the other driver settles outside of insurance cover which sounds unlikely (it's not a no fault bonus). Outline what happened clearly using diagrams / Google Maps.

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Agree - in my experience the Gardai will just tell you its a civil matter and that they have no role to play.

You will have to notify your own insurance company.
Notify them now with your version of events and let them do all the work checking out the collision.

If you are not satisfied with their decision on blame, you can deal with this later by complaining to your insurance company.

In the meantime try to forget about it.

I presume there is no camera footage available.?

Had a similar issue years ago with a lorry and his company went silent once they saw the bill involved. My insurance company dealt with everything and it didn't affect my no-claims.

OGC222 said:

I really want to keep my no claims bonus my insurance company said I will lose this if I claim through them.

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Unfortunately you will be impacted either way, any claim will have to be declared to your current and potential future insurers for a number of years to come.

OGC222 said:

My insurance are not involved for the moment I have lodged a claim against his and they are conducting the investigation. Maybe its a mistake I feel its very one sided.

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It's certainly worth a shot, but don't be surprised if they play hardball or try to claim 50/50 responsibility and suggest you need to claim from your own.

Leo said:

Unfortunately you will be impacted either way, any claim will have to be declared to your current and potential future insurers for a number of years to come.


It's certainly worth a shot, but don't be surprised if they play hardball or try to claim 50/50 responsibility and suggest you need to claim from your own.

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thanks Leo, I understand claim will be on my record seems grossly unfair if the other party is found to be 100% negligent. I am new to this situation I've never been involved in a accident before. I really was wrong place wrong time.

I’d agree with S Class.

Don’t dwell on it.

Do what you need to do and in the meantime get on with life.

I have a tendency to worry.
So.
In these matters I try to allocate a time and day to worry about it.
I sometimes even forget when that time comes.
I should set an alarm

Sorry to hear that OP and you don’t need that at this time.
It’s a difficult situation and I often wonder what to do in such circumstances where another driver is clearly at fault but won’t play fair.

Similarish situation below and looking back my sibling stressed out about this too much and it didn’t do them any good. So I’d agree with above and try if possible to not stress too much over it.

A sibling had an accident a few years ago where another driver crashed into back of their car. I went over as was nearby. Guards called but honestly one of them spent more time chatting up the driver at fault . Anhow guards fairly much washed their hands of it.

Sibling contacts the owner only to be told that it was her niece who was driving and she took the car without permission so nothing to do with me attitude. Niece was over from abroad and had since left the country. Insurance companies on both sides were no help at all.

Many many months later sibling eventually got repair cost recovered but had to go via some central group given the other driver was essentially not insured. (Dont know why or how guards didn’t check / spot this on the day)

Sibling had to stay with same insurance company for next 5 years as quotes from others were crazy due presumably to record of accident on the account.

Moral of the story
Guards don’t seem to want to know about these issues
You are reliant on other person being decent and taking their responsibility if it was their fault
You likely will get cots recovered eventually but lots of time, form filling etc
Stressing about it is not good. Only harms yourself.
Premiums likely to go up but own insurer may have best quotes as they’ll understand the situation better. They’ll still up your future quote though.

Sorry to hear that. At the spur of the moment, one party may think it was their fault. They may have spoken to insurance company meanwhile which may advise otherwise. It's not your responsibility to go to their insurance. You simply report to your insurance company about what happened. Most of these cases are negotiated on technical grounds between insurance companies e.g. who is turning versus who is going straight and so on.

You can formally request CCTV images with you on them via a subject data access request under GDPR.

Might be hard to get a resilt with a corner shop but an organisation like Tesco or Dublin Bus will have a whole team to respond to requests like this.

It’s worth a shot.

Had an issue where another driver crashed into me I had small children at the time and needed my car fixed sooner rather than later. Depending on your insurance policy if you have step back no claims I know I can make 2 claims in 3 years on my own policy without it effecting my NCB. I claimed on my own policy got my car fixed and paid the E100 excess. Aviva recovered this when the whole thing was resolved with assessors/engineers and the other persons insurance company.

Totally relate to overthinking and agreed with others sentiments my advise is to do what you can in terms of following up and then try to compartmentalise the frustration. I find if I action what I can in a timely manner it helps me accept things or at least be reassured that I have done all I can do. It took about a year all told to get my excess back. Sorry to hear you are having a tough time and hopefully you get sorted.

Placeinthesun said:

Guards don’t seem to want to know about these issues

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It's not so much that they don't want to know, but they have no role in civil disputes! Unless they establish that a Road Traffic offence happened, their hands are tied. Even where they do establish an offence has occurred, sorting out insurance liability it still in the hands of the insurance companies.

By way of update almost 7 weeks later. I have successfully claim off the other driver's insurance without going through my own policy and losing my no claims bonus. They didn't make it easy for me but I kept pushing and my car has now been repaired and paid for directly by the other drivers insurance company.

OGC222 said:

I have successfully claim off the other driver's insurance without going through my own policy and losing my no claims bonus.

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Good result, well done!! I presume you have informed your current insurers of the outcome. Have they confirmed there will be no loading applied at renewal?

You will be obliged to disclose that claim when shopping around in future.

Leo said:

I presume you have informed your current insurers of the outcome. Have they confirmed there will be no loading applied at renewal?

You will be obliged to disclose that claim when shopping around in future.

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yes I have informed my insurance company, I will have a crash on my record without liability on my end. But preserved bonus and I don't have to wait for excess to be refunded. I am happy with this outcome.