Departing tenant seeking rent refund as last rent review done by text!

A

Ailinf

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Hi there,
Became an accidental landlord a number of years ago. Had a good relationship with tenants, pretty informal and both parties happy. Rent was kept low throughout.

Tenant served notice of vacation and are now seeking a substantial amount of money as the last rent review was done via text, which I understand now was not the correct procedure however I was not aware that area had become a rpz. I understand I have responsibilities as a landlord but the rent was near 50% below market value and the tenants were never exploited , the opposite in fact. I have been losing money on the property for some time now and would have sold the house a few years ago but the tenants would have been at risk of homelessness. This action on their part has come as a quite a shock, as they have been paying very low rent all along and were very happy through out the tenancy.

They have lodged a dispute with rtb for invalid notice of rent review. Will the rtb be by the book on this or will they see this situation for what it is - any advice would be appreciated. Also, is there somewhere landlords can get advice on situations like this? All the advice seems to be for tenants.
 
That is terrible.

How long ago was the rent review? I hope that there is some time limit on claiming that it was invalid.

Maybe contact the following:

https://ipoa.ie/
 
Ailinf said:
Tenant served notice of vacation and are now seeking a substantial amount of money as the last rent review was done via text, which I understand now was not the correct procedure however I was not aware that area had become a rpz.
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It’s not the correct procedure, unfortunately.

How much money is “substantial“?

On the basis of facts presented you will absolutely lose at the RTB. Your best bet may be to seek to settle with tenants for a lower sum in advance of hearing.
 
No good deed goes unpunished.

The most your tenants can get is the amount by which you incorrectly increased the rent.

Here's what I would do:

Use the RTB calculator to work out what the rent review should have been, deduct the overpaid rent & offer that as a refund.

Then correctly review and notify of the new rent.
 
There does not appear to be a time limit for invalid rent reviews according to Citizen's Information

If the landlord has given you a valid written notice of the rent increase, you must contact the RTB with your dispute before the date that the new rent comes into effect or within 28 days of getting the notice, whichever is later. There is no time limit if the notice is not valid.

So a tenant can game this system. If they get an invalid notice, they just pay it anyway. And then claim it back years later when they leave.

I think it's worth going to the RTB mediation to see what they say.

Brendan
 
Ignorance is no defence here. You did not know your responsibilities as a landlord so the ex tenants have rights to the refund. If you cannot manage your responsibilities as a landlord (which are weighted in the tenants favour), you should sell. After nearly 3 decades renting numerous properties, I now have no rental properties. The relief is enormous. I prefer having less money than having rental income in this country.
 
Ailinf said:
Will the rtb be by the book on this or will they see this situation for what it is - any advice would be appreciated. Also, is there somewhere landlords can get advice on situations like this? All the advice seems to be for tenants.
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You have my utmost sympathy.

- The RTB will do it by the book
- Your sob story will hold no sway
- You didn't send a valid notice of rent increase
- your good deed is being punished, this is why so many landlords are leaving the business
- the RTB don't care, you are a number
- there is no point getting legal advice, many solicitors have no clue about this area, and even those that do, they can still get it wrong because of the every changing rules

Your best bet for advice is the IPOA (I'm a member, they gave me great advice for serving my notices of termination correctly, and how to deal with the RTB for this).

My views on your tenants are unprintable. I will never be kind to any tenant going forward.

You are going to have to pay the tenants back the excess rent. You could appeal to their better nature, but the way they went to the RTB would strike me as very calculated so you're probably wasting your time.
 
Thanks to all for your replies.
The rent review was 2.5 years ago.
I will most definitely be putting the property up for sale. I am so stressed over this and am getting out ASAP. I cannot afford to pay the 3500 they are looking for.

I feel that both there should be a time limit in relation to both parties claiming for an invalid notice. It seems absurd that a tenant can claim rent back for an indefinite number of years. If they were not happy with the format (text message) then surely they could dispute it there and then - but to leave it go for 2.5 years??
 
There probably is, albeit unacknowledged by the RTB/legislation.

That's why I suggested you get legal advice.

Good luck with it.
 
Presumably your tax returns for the relevant years are now incorrect. Or whatever way that works you may need some advice there. Presumably the cash they want back is tax deductible? So maybe that reduces the bill but might not help with the cash flow.
 
Well say you received €10k rent and paid €4K tax

Now the rent is down to €6.5k… shouldn’t the tax go down accordingly?

If a business issues a credit note turnover is reduced, if the rent had been refunded to the tenant during the year it would have been corrected before the year end.

I don’t mean that the OP lied on a tax return but the circumstances have changed and the real rent is now lower.
 
T McGibney said:
There probably is, albeit unacknowledged by the RTB/legislation.
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No there isn’t. Legally speaking the rent review never happened if the format was not correct.

Annieindublin said:
Now the rent is down to €6.5k… shouldn’t the tax go down accordingly?
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For tax purposes basically once you refund the rent treat it as a reduction against all rent paid in 2024.
 
Dr Strangelove said:
No there isn’t. Legally speaking the rent review never happened if the format was not correct.
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IANAL but if this happened to me, I'd be seeking legal advice on
  • whether the 2½ year delay in raising the objection invalidates a rent increase that the tenant de-facto agreed to 2½ years ago?
  • what are the relevant limits for a further objection in relation to any previous rent increase? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years?
 
T McGibney said:
what are the relevant limits for a further objection in relation to any previous rent increase? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years?
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There are none. This is a deliberate policy.

It’s based on the faulty assumption assumption that all tenants are stupid and all landlords are either stupid or malevolent.

I think we both agree on the madness of the policy choice here but the law is clear.
 
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