Dell job cuts..wider implications

Sorry I don't get it. I don't see how Dell cutting jobs worldwide, say for example Middle East and Africa are the result of the cost of the Public Sector in Ireland. Because thats the link thats being made here. Probably the poor uptake of Vista worldwide is more significant to Dell, or Apples increase sales in Laptops etc. I'd also have assumed that wage costs in the Private Sector has a bigger effect on Dells cost base than wages in the Public sector.

Purple said:
...
There has been a massive increase in staffing levels in the public sector over the last ten years. Any organisation that hires tens of thousands of people will have problems filling all of the posts. This does not necessarily mean that pay levels are too low.
Click to expand...

Your making a generalisation, where I was talking about my direct experience with specific roles.
 
aircobra19 said:
I don't really understand your point tbh. Thus not really understanding it I would have said one was a loan/credit the other cash. I can't see what it has to do with the thread topic either.

For that matter, and I'm repeating myself, I don't get what the public sector has to do it either with considering the scale of Dell operations worldwide.





Problems with the public sector (vast and many) are as much a symptom rather than a major contributer to the cost base in Ireland and problems with the economy in general. Considering that in many areas you can't attract staff into the Public sector because wages are better in the private sector. Thats mainly my own direct experence than, the popular mass media and public opinion of massive wages far beyond the private sector.
Click to expand...

thats simply not true almost all studies have shown that the public sector by and large is better paid than the private sector even without taking into account security of employment and pensions. It is simply not the case that it is difficult to recruit into the public sector it is now one of the most desirable places to work because of the above points, there maybe difficulty in recruiting highly skilled specialities especially in health but thats the case worldwide, also the practice of in house recruiting rather than opening it up to everyone is another factor. There is no problem recruiting into the lower entry levels, it is only at the very top levels that the private sector may outstrip the public sector
 
I thought by qualifying what I'd said, as direct experience and specific roles, I'd made that point.

I can't see that many of Dells core skill set in Sales, Marketing, IT, manufacturing would be directly applicable to the Public sector, at the lower entry levels. Even the higher level for that matter. I'd have assumed that the policy of "in house recruiting" would also be a natural barrier to poaching people from the private sector.
 
aircobra19 said:
I'd also have assumed that wage costs in the Private Sector has a bigger effect on Dells cost base than wages in the Public sector.
Click to expand...
Aircobra is right to be confused by those who blame Dell's job cuts on public sector wages. Indeed, the knee-jerk almost Pavlovian reaction of some AAM posters who blame everything from bad weather to Dell job cuts on public sector wages is getting seriously tiresome, given the lack of any evidence of even the most tenuous links between the two.

Any independent observer would conclude that the wages paid to Dell staff was the key factor here, not the wages paid to those who process their P45s. But let's not let common sense get in the way of a good rant. Keep the agenda rolling on....
 
Complainer said:
Aircobra is right to be confused by those who blame Dell's job cuts on public sector wages. Indeed, the knee-jerk almost Pavlovian reaction of some AAM posters who blame everything from bad weather to Dell job cuts on public sector wages is getting seriously tiresome, given the lack of any evidence of even the most tenuous links between the two.
Click to expand...
I have yet to see any post that blames the public sector for bad weather.;)

Complainer said:
Any independent observer would conclude that the wages paid to Dell staff was the key factor here, not the wages paid to those who process their P45s. But let's not let common sense get in the way of a good rant. Keep the agenda rolling on....
Click to expand...
If you give a very large proportion of the workforce large pay increase (which may or may not be deserved; that’s not the issue here) there will be a knock-on effect in the rest of the economy. If anyone does not see this they do not understand basic economics. This knock-on is what is being discussed. I do agree that general pay increases in non-competitive sectors of the private sector (like construction used to be) have has as much if not more of an impact but whereas these private sector sectors (like construction) are self –correcting during a downturn the public sector is not. This is also self-evident.

I am not trying to pick a fight Complainer; I have the height of respect for you, but please try to see the context.
 
Purple said:
If you give a very large proportion of the workforce large pay increase (which may or may not be deserved; that’s not the issue here) there will be a knock-on effect in the rest of the economy. If anyone does not see this they do not understand basic economics. This knock-on is what is being discussed. I do agree that general pay increases in non-competitive sectors of the private sector (like construction used to be) have has as much if not more of an impact but whereas these private sector sectors (like construction) are self –correcting during a downturn the public sector is not. This is also self-evident.
Click to expand...
THis is a chicken and egg arguement. Did the public sector increases cause the private sector increases, or was it perhaps vice versa?
 
The point is theres other factors which have a bigger impact here, than public sector pay, in the context of a global company shedding staff globally. So this thread shouldn't be focused on Public Sector as much as it does.

In theory benchmarking should allow a reduction in Public Sector Pay. But as the increases were so delayed that some sections didn't even get their full increments, I can't see thats going to happen easily.

Why am I reminded of mortgage lenders who can pass on increases in rates instantly but can take weeks even months, to pass on reductions.

Will the Govt tackle problems with the economy including the problems in the Public Sector? I suspect, they'll fire fight the issues as they erupt in crisis.
 
Unfortunately it looks like the "doom and gloom merchants" who engaged in "useless speculation" have been proved right.

Dell is to cut its workforce in Limerick by around 1,900.
[broken link removed]
 
It was niave to think the plant would continue to operate once the investment was made in Poland. The smart money went to Lodtz. Dell lifted Limerick in the 18 years it was there, and it will do the same for Lodtz.
I remember going in to a music shop when I was living in Limerick in the earlier part of this decade. The owner and I had a chat, and he said he'd shut down the shop the day Dell announced it was leaving. He said there would be no point in hanging around. That's how seriously he took Dell's impact on Limericks economy. I'll be interested now in seeing if he follows through. A bad day for Limerick. Hopefully they'll be able to react like Galway did when they lost Digital.
 
Nothing to do with Doom & Gloom merchants , part of the world economic slowdown and global search for more competitive markets in this case Poland Cost base is cheaper and therefore more attractive to Dell
 
Apparently many of the positions filled there are by foreign nationals. So they will just go to where the work is. The knock on effect is worse than the initial 1900 that's for sure.

BUT wouldn't it be great if we lived in an efficient country where a competent government would use the plant to make Irish laptops and desktops. Those components are sourced from China and Taiwan and assembled in Limerick. I would buy an Irish made & branded laptop in the morning if I had a chance. Why does it have to have a Dell badge on it? A friend of mine in an importer of such parts for small oem builders here and there is a thriving market locally and in the UK for such machines.

Problem is that you would need some capital to get started. Does Dell own that building?

I hope that out of the 1900 we get some folk who go at it themselves and become successful (as happened in Cork after Digital).

And remember Microsoft or Apple for example were total manufacturing sites in the late 80's and let a ton of staff go. As its operations changed here they hired three times the number back. Since Dell left 1000 there they see some value in the site so maybe it will grow again on the remaining expertise.

Dont expect Dell to remain in Poland for too long either. Cost base is rising rapidly there too.
 
should government departments and public service organisations now cancel any contracts they have with Dell for the upkeep and replacement of thousands of computers - and source them from companies providing jobs for Irish workers?

I think so.
 
podgerodge said:
should government departments and public service organisations now cancel any contracts they have with Dell for the upkeep and replacement of thousands of computers - and source them from companies providing jobs for Irish workers?

I think so.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, spite, that should be the top priority in how our Public bodies source their IT infrastructure. I'd put it right up there with nepotism, cronyism and the brown envelope in the "how what we run our country" stakes.

Kudos, you seem to have a fine grasp on the big picture.
 
podgerodge said:
should government departments and public service organisations now cancel any contracts they have with Dell for the upkeep and replacement of thousands of computers - and source them from companies providing jobs for Irish workers?

I think so.
Click to expand...

What, even if it costs twice as much to go to another company? Why exactly do you want to get even with Dell anyway?. They are still one of the Country's biggest employers even after yesterdays job losses and you want to punish them. Bizarre.
 
Howitzer said:
Ah yes, spite, that should be the top priority in how our Public bodies source their IT infrastructure. I'd put it right up there with nepotism, cronyism and the brown envelope in the "how what we run our country" stakes.

Kudos, you seem to have a fine grasp on the big picture.
Click to expand...

Well if 'spite' means that Public bodies show support for Irish jobs rather than Polish jobs I am personally all for it. And I'm sure plenty of people in Limerick right now would agree with me. But I'm happy for you that "your grasp of the big picture" is obviously the right one.

Sunny said:
What, even if it costs twice as much to go to another company? Why exactly do you want to get even with Dell anyway?. They are still one of the Country's biggest employers even after yesterdays job losses and you want to punish them. Bizarre.
Click to expand...

I don't "want to get even with Dell". I simply believe that Irish jobs should be supported by Govt Depts/Public sector organisations. I don't believe that it would cost "twice as much to go to another company". But I do believe, that given the amount of business they could put towards Irish companies, and given the fact that this would possibly save some job losses from the other sectors that depend on the now defunct Dell manufacturing jobs, it would be worth paying a little more to companies providing Irish jobs given the benefits to Ireland as a result.

Dell will, and have to, put profit first. So that's what they have done. The Government should put Irish jobs first. Hence my opinion.
 
podgerodge said:
I don't "want to get even with Dell". I simply believe that Irish jobs should be supported by Govt Depts/Public sector organisations. I don't believe that it would cost "twice as much to go to another company". But I do believe, that given the amount of business they could put towards Irish companies, and given the fact that this would possibly save some job losses from the other sectors that depend on the now defunct Dell manufacturing jobs, it would be worth paying a little more to companies providing Irish jobs given the benefits to Ireland as a result.

.
Click to expand...

Grand stuff. So you will have no problem with other European Countries telling all our companies who tender for State contracts abroad that they are not getting the work because they have to go to domestic companies. Do you know how many Irish jobs that will cost? We will just ignore the fact that it is illegal for a Government to favour domestic companies for State contracts.
 
podgerodge said:
Dell will, and have to, put profit first. So that's what they have done. The Government should put Irish jobs first. Hence my opinion.
Click to expand...
If the Irish government did what you seggest they would be in breach of EU law.
You should also consider what would happen to a country like Ireland, which exports so much of what it produces, if the US government took the same stance you advicate when so many of their companies shed staff and relocated to Ireland in the 80’s and 90’s.

Post crossed wih Sunny
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top