David Norris and academic discussions.
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At least he went with dignity and admit that he was wrong.
As a matter of interest, does anyone know why the Presidental race is nearly always so dirty? I get that it is, but not why it is? It's mostly a ceremonial position, I wouldn't have thought it warranted what appears to be a lot of cloak and dagger stuff, as well as sifting through the candidates smalls and unmentionables 
This one hasn't started yet
If it's as dirty and nasty as Robinson, Currie and Lenihan I'll be getting my popcorn ready
As for why? Well TD's run every few years so if they have skeletons we'd know them already. A lot of the candidates here never ran before or else had soft easy elections like Trinity College. So we are only finding all this now.
If it's as dirty and nasty as Robinson, Currie and Lenihan I'll be getting my popcorn ready
As for why? Well TD's run every few years so if they have skeletons we'd know them already. A lot of the candidates here never ran before or else had soft easy elections like Trinity College. So we are only finding all this now.
T McGibney
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+1 on both counts. Regardless of one's political opinions and Presidential voting intentions, its a sad day. Anyone who takes pleasure in Norris' difficulties this week is an idiot imho.
In terms of previously acceptable behaviour in TD's, lobbying for clemency was not unacceptable IMO and I think Norris had no need to apologize.
I think he was frightened by the dirty viciousness of the mainstream parties who orchestrated this to prevent the electorate having their say in selecting a president.
I believe that because of this - and as another poster mentioned, its only beginning - I think anyone from the mainstream parties that goes forward is attainted as a candidate.
I hope an independent wins, to underline the percentage won by independents in the last general election and to further educate the main parties that ethics in office is a two edged sword.
Now that Norris has set the bar so high by admitting he did wrong, any candidate who lobbied in a similar fashion must also go.
ONQ.
Of course any TD or politician that makes representations on behalf of murderers, rapists, child abusers or any other person accused of a serious criminal offence should be judged by the same standards. It is a disgusting element of politics that these people think they can interfere.
I am still absolutely amazed that the debate seemed to be about the letter and the political mud slinging rather than on the fact that he defended a 45 year old man having a sexual relationship with a 15 year old boy. Next time people want to discuss child protection and attitudes towards it in this Country, they would do well to consider this case and the reaction towards it. How someone can think Norris had no reason to apologise is beyond me. Just because other TD's may have done it is no defence. If I took a few thousand instead of millions like Haughey, it doesn't make me any less corrupt. Anyway he is out of the race and good luck to him in the future.
+1 to all of that.
David Norris..
If David Norris had, from the outset made public his correspondence with the Israeli judiciary,together with his reasons for making the amnesty plea,maybe he would still be in the race for the presidency. The fact that he didn't showed him to be very naive,and raised questions about his lack of jugdement.
The manner in which all this came to life,however is very unedifying,and speaks volumes about the way which political life is conducted in this country.
daithi
If David Norris had, from the outset made public his correspondence with the Israeli judiciary,together with his reasons for making the amnesty plea,maybe he would still be in the race for the presidency. The fact that he didn't showed him to be very naive,and raised questions about his lack of jugdement.
The manner in which all this came to life,however is very unedifying,and speaks volumes about the way which political life is conducted in this country.
daithi
Well according to his staff, there are loads more letters that he wrote looking for clemency to people inside and outside israel. Only the minimum have been made public. Sounds like he started a campaign on the topic. I have no idea who or why these came into the public domain but it belongs there. It's the cost of public life. This is not a smear campaign. It's facts.
Norris at no time defended his partners actions. The case was tried and he was convicted. Please post proof of your assertion if you have it.
Norris sought clemency in sentencing by referring to his partner's otherwise good character.
Its a mark of the humanity of the man and the love he bore for his partner that he did so despite having been hurt by Nawi by this offence.
I think its time people start applying the "correct" part of "politically correct" and post comments that are based on fact, not smear tactics.
ONQ.
So long as the commentators stick to the facts and don't post smears only loosely related to the facts I have no problem with that.
I would be very interested to see the letters and very interested to learn how you learnt of them.
Is there a link to them somewhere?
ONQ.
Did nobody commenting today actually read the documents?
Norris on the evidence to date had NO correspondence with the Israeli Judiciary.
Norris wrote an appeal for leniency on plain paper and sent it to Nawi's defense lawyer to use in any submissions to the court seeking clemency.
It would have been improper for his to directly address the Court or for the Court to respond.
ONQ.
Absolutely agree.
The manner of Norris' going and the standard it sets for everyone in public life places huge responsibility on those selecting candidates for this high office - or any other elected position - in the future.
Lobbying for reduced sentences on compassionate grounds for convicted criminals is now outlawed.
Hopefully none of the other Presidential Candidates have done so.
ONQ.
We will never agree but writing a character reference for a person found guilty of statutory rape is defending the person. I never claimed that Norris defended the offence (though I think he has dubious views). Like I say, I would never defend a 45 year old relative, never mind friend if they were found guilty of that offence. That might make me a crap human being but so be it.
Thanks for that.
I had read it earlier, but I had misinterpreted your first post to mean these were letters on behalf of *others* as opposed to his partner.
For a minute there I wondered if we were going to see a flood of please for clemency for a host of people.
ONQ.
I have read all of your posts now on this subject and I feel that you are defending the man you thought Norris was rather than the man he has turned out to be. You say his letter was a mark of the mans 'humanity' but like him you never speak of the 15 year olds role in this crime. When an underage person is taken into a sexual relationship with an adult it is often referred to as grooming yet on this thread people are amazingly saying that he was almost 'of age' and debating the finer points of how the letter was written and on what paper.
Sticking with the facts, Norris looked for clemency for Nawi on the crime of statutory rape - enough said really.
The_Banker
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Norris' campaign team pulled the plug very quickly. That says it all.
onq, can I ask a question? Are you close to the Norris campaign team? Your defence is pretty stout in the face of (what I believe to be) unbelievable stupidity by Norris (at best).
I am far from a right wing homophobic zealot (anyone who reads my posts will know my anti catholic church views) and I would have voted for Norris before this but I could never vote for a man who would write a letter in support of a 45 year old man who had a 15 year old lover, be it hetrosexual or homosexual.
He did the correct thing in resigning and I hope (for his sake nothing else comes out) and maybe he was set up but you just cannot defend his actions.
Kathleen Lynch wrote a similar letter for a double rapist in Cork (this is in the public domain). She was expected to top the poll in Cork NC but didn't. Most politicians do this but it is 100% wrong.
onq, can I ask a question? Are you close to the Norris campaign team? Your defence is pretty stout in the face of (what I believe to be) unbelievable stupidity by Norris (at best).
I am far from a right wing homophobic zealot (anyone who reads my posts will know my anti catholic church views) and I would have voted for Norris before this but I could never vote for a man who would write a letter in support of a 45 year old man who had a 15 year old lover, be it hetrosexual or homosexual.
He did the correct thing in resigning and I hope (for his sake nothing else comes out) and maybe he was set up but you just cannot defend his actions.
Kathleen Lynch wrote a similar letter for a double rapist in Cork (this is in the public domain). She was expected to top the poll in Cork NC but didn't. Most politicians do this but it is 100% wrong.
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