My objection is when someone breaking all the rules comes out with the argument "We're the most vulnerable road users, so you must be aware of us". When I'm cycling, I behave like I'm vulnerable, which means I don't go through red lights when there's traffic coming across the intersection, or do other stupid things likely to get me killed. You can either cycle sensibly, and use the argument that cyclists are vulnerable and motorists should be aware, or you can be a kamikaze cyclist and accept you're likely to become a statistic.
Cyclists and rules of the road
- Thread starter rustbucket
- Start date
Partly because most of the threads that bemoan cyclist behaviour seem to ignore the poor standards of road use of whatever community they see themselves belonging to. So if you start a thread on an unbalanced view, you can expect those with alternative unbalanced views to have their say. Motorists don't own the thread, if motorists, cyclists, pedestrians, etc. are looking for a forum to rant about a particular group of road users without others disagreeing, then they need to find a forum where your target group don't contribute.
The OP has clarified that their post wasn't anti-cyclist, but more a comment on the lack of Garda action for a crime they likely witnessed. So let's stick to that topic rather than the worn out which group is worse than the other. Besides, let's face it, contact with a bicycle saddle doesn't somehow diminish your character so much that you are likely to flaunt the law at every opportunity.
A more interesting subject might be is it a nature of typical Irish character that we collectively have such disregard for road traffic law, how we compare versus other nations, and how levels of Garda enforcement influence our behaviour.
Thank you for that Seagull.....at least you admit to what I have been saying. ;-)
postman pat
Registered User
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- 332
I blame the traffic lights myself....
Oh I'll readily admit doing it myself, but then I drive a lot more than I cycle, so I'm sure I break far more regs driving. Sure I even often park with two wheels on the footpath outside my house, as does everyone on the street.
While driving, I usually prefer when cyclists proceed through lights. If they all stopped and used the advanced stop lines like they're supposed to (assuming a car isn't illegally blocking that), then it can take ages when there are a few of them to organise themselves back into single file so there's space to overtake. Sometimes it takes so long they just manage before you meet the next set of lights, and it starts all over again.
Congratulations on a selective piece of quoting, and lifting something out of context to suit your own purposes. Actually, I don't go through red lights at all. The point I was making was that cyclists breaking the rules shouldn't go looking for sympathy when they inevitably become a road statistic.
Full post now quoted, doesn't change what you said one iota.
Relevant sentence in bold with a very pertinent "when" underlined, which to my way of reading it means, "If there is no traffic I WILL go through a junction regardless of a red traffic light".
Maybe I am reading it wrongly.
BTW, it was not meant to be selective quoting, it was for ease of reading.
It's hardly promotion in any recognised definition of the word.
As to why bother with any of them, well, 95+% of of road traffic offenses I witness are perpetrated by motorists. Why can't they bother obey the rules but still somehow get irrationally miffed at other road user groups displaying the exact same bahaviours that have no real impact on them?
Ah come on now Leo, we are into semantics now. If I said that I usually prefer product A over product B then it easily could, and quite often would be deemed that I am promoting product A.
So when you said "I usually prefer when cyclists proceed through lights" then that easily could and quite often would be deemed that you are promoting that cyclists do, just that.
And now we are back to my first post in this thread, ie. when cyclists are accused of breaking the ROTR their immediate "defence" is "Well look at what motorists do....". As if that, in some way, mitigates their own disregard for the rules.
IMHO, it really is an extremely puerile response, as we were all taught in school that "Two wrongs don't make a right", yet in myriad threads on AAM about this subject it is normally the first of many similar responses posted.
None of us is perfect on the road but why cyclists, when seen/accused of rule breaking cannot simply "put up their hands to it" and say "Yes you're right, I shouldn't do it, mea culpa", but feel compelled to come out with......"Well what about motorists blah blah blah.......", or, "Well the reason I don't adhere to the rules is blah blah blah.......", is beyond me.
Quite simply the ROTR are there and are law, all road users are bound by them, whether we agree with them or not.
I see where you're going, but promoting it would imply I actively encourage it. By saying it suits me as a motorist when cyclists don't obstruct me or slow me down, I don't think that's really going to encourage too many of them to break the law just to facilitate me. It's not like I'm shouting out the window at them
It's like I mentioned above, whenever anyone comes out with an unbalanced view complaining about another group in society, members of that group are always going to come back with an equal (or this being the internet, greater) attack on the group the OP belongs to. So these threads always just descend into the same old nonsense that goes nowhere.
It's not an exclusive cyclist thing, take a look at threads on here and other forums started by cyclists, motorcyclists, truck drivers or pedestrians complaining about another group of road users, and it's the same old arguments, just in a slightly different order. They never go anywhere, and nothing is ever achieved.
As a cyclist, I'd consider my compliance as better than many, but I'll readily admit to going through red lights when it's absolutely clear and I in no way inconvenience a driver or pedestrian. As a pedestrian, I rarely wait for the green man to cross roads when traffic isn't flowing, or even go too far out of my way to cross at a pedestrian crossing. As a driver, I'd consider myself more compliant than the majority I see during my commute around Dublin, but I do occasionally cross a solid white line to overtake a cyclist, tractor, etc., I'd be blown out of it if I didn't. I don't always 100% clear a yellow box, sometimes approaching traffic lights that change, I might roll a little past the stop line (even an inch is breaking the law after all).
I really would like to see some meaningful dialog, and accurate statistics on our compliance with road traffic legislation as a whole, and see if real figures do indicate one particular user group is worse than another, is it a particularly Irish thing, and how we compare to other nations. Remember the inspectors sent over by the Luas operators a number of years back to investigate why there was a significantly higher occurrence of incidents involving trams here? Their conclusion, we collectively, and consistently ignore the law.
Moving on from semantics to pedantry, the ROTR aren't the law, they're just an 'easy to read' synopsis of the various acts, there's a lot of subtlety in the acts that they don't cover.
My personal friends in the Gardai tell me they would collapse the court system if they summonsed all of the cyclists that they personally witness "break" the rules of the road and generally and generally ignore it.
The only Gardai that will address a law breaking cyclist is a member of the traffic corps or a Garda on traffic duty and even then unless there is an accident all they will give is a ticking off!
They also advise me that there is very little that they can summons the cyclist on even if they witness them running a red light.
I expect it will become more of an issue due to the increase in the Dublin Coca Cola bike scheme and as personal injuries increase. Perhaps then the relevant minister and authorities will eventually be forced to legislate appropriately and for the Gardai to enforce the law for public safety.
F
flowerman
Guest
I watched a traffic corp garda give a cyclist a lambasting this morning at Beaumont Hospital.
Cyclist broke the red light so garda went after him and made an example of him.
I was delighted to see the garda go after him.
Oh and before anyone says Im anti cycling,Im a car driver,a motorbiker and a cyclist too.I cycle alot actually and I was glad to see this cyclist get his just reward for breaking the red lights.
Cyclist broke the red light so garda went after him and made an example of him.
I was delighted to see the garda go after him.
Oh and before anyone says Im anti cycling,Im a car driver,a motorbiker and a cyclist too.I cycle alot actually and I was glad to see this cyclist get his just reward for breaking the red lights.
True, but car users make up 66% of commuters into Dublin, cyclists account for 10%, pedestrians 18%, bus, motorbikes and commercial vehicles make up the rest. If the Gardai were to introduce zero tolerance, there'd be a significant portion of the population facing driving bans.